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Why Does The Delivery Process Suck So Much?

comanchepilot

Member
Oct 3, 2017
404
324
SoCal - EAST
Spend $75k on a Benz, Porsche, Audi, or BMW and you're an honored customer. Spend $75k on a Tesla and they can't rid of you fast enough.

My wife's new Model S delivered with paint chips [fixed before delivery] actual miles on it because they had to drive it from Los Angeles to the delivery location [NOT our home but a Tesla location in SoCal] and she did not get a copy of any paperwork at delivery - not offered so much as a bottle of water.

Once BMW/Benz etal start actually having decent ev's for sale - I don't want to see what happens to Tesla sales.

There is an excuse literally for EVERYTHING that goes wrong. They change a trade in price when you arrive with ZERO excuses - we had to walk out to get them to honor a price they gave us YESTERDAY. Have an appointment? Oh well, you're waiting until we can get to you. ZERO time or effort spent with the customer to set the car up. My wife takes photos of her settings so she can sit in the parking lot to set the car up.

The customer service for a customer and not a fanboy is just absymal. Wife had a 2017 75D that was replaced with a 2021 100D essentially [whatever they call it!] that they lowered the price - basically only for more range and so she could get the car pool sticker til we move out of California - but thats another tale.
 

glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
2,991
3,044
USA
Everything you said is on point. Tesla is in major trouble once Merc/BMW get things figured out.

A company cannot survive without being able to meet the basic service and support needs of the fleet.

Owners that got Tesla to where they are today will not be back for a second or third helping.
 

RDoc

S85D
Aug 24, 2012
2,736
1,588
Boston North Shore
They sell every car they can make with the current price, level of customer service, and production quality. Clearly, since they have waiting lists for their cars, they need to lower one or more of these corporate metrics to increase their profits. Even if they could lower costs and increase their customer experience through better organization and efficiency, that would require management attention and possibly capital expenditures.

As it is, Tesla isn't maximizing the return for their stockholders.
 

comanchepilot

Member
Oct 3, 2017
404
324
SoCal - EAST
They sell every car they can make with the current price, level of customer service, and production quality. Clearly, since they have waiting lists for their cars, they need to lower one or more of these corporate metrics to increase their profits. Even if they could lower costs and increase their customer experience through better organization and efficiency, that would require management attention and possibly capital expenditures.

As it is, Tesla isn't maximizing the return for their stockholders.
You really think the Model S is selling out? Hmmm. The X is on life support.

The 3/Y is healthy but the conclusion remains: If you don't take care of your customers - someone else will.

Look - not my car - I would NOT buy a Tesla now because their corporate philosophy is No, screw you, you want this car or not?
 
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RDoc

S85D
Aug 24, 2012
2,736
1,588
Boston North Shore
Everything you said is on point. Tesla is in major trouble once Merc/BMW get things figured out.

A company cannot survive without being able to meet the basic service and support needs of the fleet.

Owners that got Tesla to where they are today will not be back for a second or third helping.
You're correct of course. However, at their current rate of progress, Musk will be long retired and living on Mars by the time they do get things figured out.
 

drtimhill

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
1,755
2,141
Seattle
Spend $75k on a Benz, Porsche, Audi, or BMW and you're an honored customer. Spend $75k on a Tesla and they can't rid of you fast enough.

Once BMW/Benz etal start actually having decent ev's for sale - I don't want to see what happens to Tesla sales.

There is an excuse literally for EVERYTHING that goes wrong. They change a trade in price when you arrive with ZERO excuses - we had to walk out to get them to honor a price they gave us YESTERDAY. Have an appointment? Oh well, you're waiting until we can get to you. ZERO time or effort spent with the customer to set the car up. My wife takes photos of her settings so she can sit in the parking lot to set the car up.

The customer service for a customer and not a fanboy is just absymal. Wife had a 2017 75D that was replaced with a 2021 100D essentially [whatever they call it!] that they lowered the price - basically only for more range and so she could get the car pool sticker til we move out of California - but thats another tale.

While I agree that Tesla service and customer contact needs a lot of improvement, let's not pretend that BMW/Merc don't also have issues. Ordering either car on the BMW/Merc is a bewildering array of options, package, and add-ons that (imho) are disingenuous, since they are mostly designed to make the base price look cheaper. Compared to the clean simplicity of the Tesla ordering process, the BMW/Merc experience is awful.

There is also the whole idiocy of "negotiating" a price and all the silly dance of lies and posturing you have to do at the BMW/Merc dealer.

And the days have long gone when a BMW/Merc was a solid reliable car. They passed that torch to Lexus long ago.

So yes, you are right, Tesla needs to work on their customer service. But I would not hold up BMW/Merc as a paragon of excellence in all areas.
 

strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
3,528
776
NE Oklahoma
While I agree that Tesla service and customer contact needs a lot of improvement, let's not pretend that BMW/Merc don't also have issues. Ordering either car on the BMW/Merc is a bewildering array of options, package, and add-ons that (imho) are disingenuous, since they are mostly designed to make the base price look cheaper. Compared to the clean simplicity of the Tesla ordering process, the BMW/Merc experience is awful.

There is also the whole idiocy of "negotiating" a price and all the silly dance of lies and posturing you have to do at the BMW/Merc dealer.

And the days have long gone when a BMW/Merc was a solid reliable car. They passed that torch to Lexus long ago.

So yes, you are right, Tesla needs to work on their customer service. But I would not hold up BMW/Merc as a paragon of excellence in all areas.
Ok, so change the OPs comparison to Lexus, Acura, etc. All of the complaints still apply.

The bottom line is that the ONLY thing that Wall Street (and by extension, Elon) cares about is production and deliveries. Until the bad Customer Service affects those numbers, nothing will change. The only thing that will affect those numbers is viable competition. Until then, where are you going to go?
 

CapeOne

Member
Jun 14, 2016
826
526
New England
Once BMW/Benz etal start actually having decent ev's for sale - I don't want to see what happens to Tesla sales.
More choice and competition in the BEV space will be good for consumers. It should force Tesla to give a darn about quality and customer service. Until then.....well, it is what it is I guess. Right now, Musk seems more concerned about the stock price and showing profits.
 

CapeOne

Member
Jun 14, 2016
826
526
New England
They sell every car they can make with the current price, level of customer service, and production quality. Clearly, since they have waiting lists for their cars.
I wouldn't say there is a "waiting list" for Teslas right now any more than there are waiting lists for special order cars from other automakers.

Tesla currently has plenty of new and demo inventory cars (at discounts of up to 15% or so) available for fast delivery.
 
Sep 23, 2020
480
415
Sacramento CA
While I agree that Tesla service and customer contact needs a lot of improvement, let's not pretend that BMW/Merc don't also have issues. Ordering either car on the BMW/Merc is a bewildering array of options, package, and add-ons that (imho) are disingenuous, since they are mostly designed to make the base price look cheaper. Compared to the clean simplicity of the Tesla ordering process, the BMW/Merc experience is awful.

There is also the whole idiocy of "negotiating" a price and all the silly dance of lies and posturing you have to do at the BMW/Merc dealer.

And the days have long gone when a BMW/Merc was a solid reliable car. They passed that torch to Lexus long ago.

So yes, you are right, Tesla needs to work on their customer service. But I would not hold up BMW/Merc as a paragon of excellence in all areas.
Therefore - as you suggested - Lexus carries the torch.

My 2005 AWD RX hasn't had an unplanned service visit in 15 years. And I get a free Latte from the cool machine every time I go in for an oil change.
 
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comanchepilot

Member
Oct 3, 2017
404
324
SoCal - EAST
Ok, so change the OPs comparison to Lexus, Acura, etc. All of the complaints still apply.

The bottom line is that the ONLY thing that Wall Street (and by extension, Elon) cares about is production and deliveries. Until the bad Customer Service affects those numbers, nothing will change. The only thing that will affect those numbers is viable competition. Until then, where are you going to go?

Yup - and I'm not seeing a lot of reporting on the Japanese car makers with a laundry list of EV's - they'll get them eventually. And until then the european dealers will have them by 2022. And the German and Japanese dealers will get the $7500 federal credit - making the price much more attractive.

If Porsche REALLY wanted to stop being the stuck up overpriced German entity that they are - can you imagine 914 type vehicle that is electric and sub 2 seconds to 60, handles like its on rails, with German attention to production detail, for $50k? It's totally possible. . . .
 
Sep 23, 2020
480
415
Sacramento CA
Ok, so change the OPs comparison to Lexus, Acura, etc. All of the complaints still apply.

The bottom line is that the ONLY thing that Wall Street (and by extension, Elon) cares about is production and deliveries. Until the bad Customer Service affects those numbers, nothing will change. The only thing that will affect those numbers is viable competition. Until then, where are you going to go?
Wall Street doesn't care about production and deliveries. It cares about profit. Frankly, the way Elon massages the numbers, it's kinda hard to tell.

He and his stock will be sayonara Charlie at some point. The lack of necessary capital expenditures are biting him in the ass as we speak.
 

comanchepilot

Member
Oct 3, 2017
404
324
SoCal - EAST
Wall Street doesn't care about production and deliveries. It cares about profit. Frankly, the way Elon massages the numbers, it's kinda hard to tell.

He and his stock will be sayonara Charlie at some point. The lack of necessary capital expenditures are biting him in the ass as we speak.
Absolutely correct - he's already been prosecuted for Sarbanes- Oxley violations. . .
 

drtimhill

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
1,755
2,141
Seattle
Ok, so change the OPs comparison to Lexus, Acura, etc. All of the complaints still apply.

The bottom line is that the ONLY thing that Wall Street (and by extension, Elon) cares about is production and deliveries. Until the bad Customer Service affects those numbers, nothing will change. The only thing that will affect those numbers is viable competition. Until then, where are you going to go?

As I said, I dont disagree. I was just pointing out that Tesla does some things better than anyone (even Lexus/Acura still make you haggle and have absurd options packages). I'm certainly not going to set myself up as an apologist for Tesla.
 
Sep 23, 2020
480
415
Sacramento CA
Yup - and I'm not seeing a lot of reporting on the Japanese car makers with a laundry list of EV's - they'll get them eventually. And until then the european dealers will have them by 2022. And the German and Japanese dealers will get the $7500 federal credit - making the price much more attractive.

If Porsche REALLY wanted to stop being the stuck up overpriced German entity that they are - can you imagine 914 type vehicle that is electric and sub 2 seconds to 60, handles like its on rails, with German attention to production detail, for $50k? It's totally possible. . . .
Indeed indeed. My family member has a Leaf. Not an apples-to-apples Tesla alternative - but her model has a 220 mile range and has been perfect since she kicked off her lease. And she got the $7500 credit. Oh yeah - she's happy with her purchase.

That bodes well for the Nissan cross-overy EV coming out in 2021 with estimated 300 mile range. Of course I'll be checking it out.
 

r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,371
467
Irvine
While I agree that Tesla service and customer contact needs a lot of improvement, let's not pretend that BMW/Merc don't also have issues. Ordering either car on the BMW/Merc is a bewildering array of options, package, and add-ons that (imho) are disingenuous, since they are mostly designed to make the base price look cheaper. Compared to the clean simplicity of the Tesla ordering process, the BMW/Merc experience is awful.

There is also the whole idiocy of "negotiating" a price and all the silly dance of lies and posturing you have to do at the BMW/Merc dealer.

And the days have long gone when a BMW/Merc was a solid reliable car. They passed that torch to Lexus long ago.

So yes, you are right, Tesla needs to work on their customer service. But I would not hold up BMW/Merc as a paragon of excellence in all areas.
you are absolutely correct.....I had a 1985 300D Turbo Diesel.....Had nothing but problems....windshield washer dripped because the strap fluid was wrong and it ate paint.....belched black smoke at every gear shift when you punch it....Wanted new vehicle but bought in California and military sent me to New Orleans....They had no idea of the diesel.....finally had guys from Europe come and say it was f--ked up....got a new short block and new transmission.....this process to from a 10 day old car to a 18 month 24k miles.....

I went to buy new car...looked at Mercedes and BMW....what a hassle.....just happened to go by Lexus and never looked back....from 1995 till 2019 had nothing but Lexus and never had an issue that I was not treated like a king when I went to service.....of course that kind of service is built into the car (hahaha)....

When we bought our 2019 M3 for the wife, the experience was great and fun.....really good delivery.....When I got my 2020 MS, it was really bad...three different people, one only had 15 min because he had to go and sign out....waited for 45 min on someone else.....although there were hardly any issues, it was just a bad feeling and experience.....and it is getting worse with the Covid issues .....dont know what to expect with the truck, but there is no way I will put up with that kind of crap again....so we will only see if I go to get it and actually drive it home.....in 18 months, a lot can happen.....but I agree, when Lexus has a car with the range of the Tesla, knowing the quality of Lexus, I will seriously consider getting one....Their dealer is 2.4 miles from the house, always a loaner available, and the service will still treat me like a king....and I will get no excuses or be made to think it was my fault
 

strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
3,528
776
NE Oklahoma
If Porsche REALLY wanted to stop being the stuck up overpriced German entity that they are - can you imagine 914 type vehicle that is electric and sub 2 seconds to 60, handles like its on rails, with German attention to production detail, for $50k? It's totally possible. . . .

Huh? Porsche's entire identity is based on overcharging for what they make. I drove a Corvette before the Roadster. Friends and coworkers with 911's would rag on me for my purchase. Never mind that Corvettes will equal or outperform a 911 for 2/3 or less of the price. Rather like the Taycan and Model S. Doesn't matter. They are a luxury/statement brand. Porsche has no desire to be a mass market maker. That is Volkswagen's job. That being said, at least they are continuing to deliver very high quality products. A lot of companies that had a very good reputation monetize that by dialing down the product quality while keeping premium prices.

Wall Street doesn't care about production and deliveries. It cares about profit. Frankly, the way Elon massages the numbers, it's kinda hard to tell.
Profit? Tesla has never made a profit. If what you say is true, Tesla would not exist. They would not have been given the constant cash infusions they need to stay alive. Wall Street cares about deliveries and production. That's what the analysts ask about on the earnings calls. No one talks about profit.
 

comanchepilot

Member
Oct 3, 2017
404
324
SoCal - EAST
Huh? Porsche's entire identity is based on overcharging for what they make. I drove a Corvette before the Roadster. Friends and coworkers with 911's would rag on me for my purchase. Never mind that Corvettes will equal or outperform a 911 for 2/3 or less of the price. Rather like the Taycan and Model S. Doesn't matter. They are a luxury/statement brand. Porsche has no desire to be a mass market maker. That is Volkswagen's job. That being said, at least they are continuing to deliver very high quality products. A lot of companies that had a very good reputation monetize that by dialing down the product quality while keeping premium prices.


Profit? Tesla has never made a profit. If what you say is true, Tesla would not exist. They would not have been given the constant cash infusions they need to stay alive. Wall Street cares about deliveries and production. That's what the analysts ask about on the earnings calls. No one talks about profit.
Of course - can you find a C8 to drive off the lot?

How about if Volkswagen makes a 914 / Boxster type EV for $50k? The acceleration is simply part of the EV package so you're left with creating a good handling sports car - they do have a couple of body styles that might work - and the handling of a Rabbit style vehicle - even a convertible - would be greatly improved by putting the mass in the middle - like with a Tesla - I'm think a Targa type body style with a unique 914 style body - it after all was essentially a VW anyway!

GM should have put the Volt in a pickup body - they would have sold tens of thousands.

Ford has the Ranger - turning it onto an EV would likewise sell.
 

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