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Why does the P100D cost $42,500 more than the P100?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by timk225, May 13, 2017.

  1. timk225

    timk225 Member

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    I'm sure there are reasons, and I'd love to know what they are. Why is the "D" in a P100D so expensive?

    What changed in the car? Same battery? Same motors? I'm sure they alter some fuses and cables, and change the computer programming to allow more power to dump to the motors, but $42,500 worth of changes?

    Methinks there is a significant profit margin in this upgrade.
     
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  2. NikeWings

    NikeWings Active Member

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    Its not the D (dual motor and available in other battery sizes), its the P (performance model and now only available in the 100kWh). And yes, its well-known that there is greater profit margin built into the car. You can compare some of the differences here. Order a Tesla Model S | Tesla
     
  3. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    Because Tesla figures the kind of person who wants that kind of performance will pay extra. People who want a practical car and are okay with 4.8 sec 0-60 will go with the 100D instead. I would, just for the extra range.
     
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  4. Dwdnjck

    Dwdnjck Member

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    Try making a speed jump to 2.4 to sixty in a gas car. How much does that cost?
     
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  5. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    I dunno, $42,500 buys a lot of other toys - in my family a one week vacation budget is $6K (for four of us), thats 7 weeks of vacation to some pretty cool places. Its also almost two years of tuition at a good state school like UVA, its a used single engine plane, it's stock in a high growth company like NVDA - that gave a 207% return in 2016. etc. etc...

    This is very hard to justify.
     
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  6. Richgoogol

    Richgoogol Member

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    You are probably not their audience then. I too find it hard to justify. It's aimed at those who don't need to rationalize. :D
     
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  7. MurrayJimW

    MurrayJimW Member

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    I agree entirely with the seemingly irrational pricing for that upgrade. Would I have been on board if it costs $10,000? - probably, but $40k - no way. As near as I can tell the upgrade includes some software, some cabling, and the same rear motor used on the single motor cars as opposed to the smaller one used in the dual motor cars. This leads me to believe the entire upgrade costs Tesla less than $1000. I could be mistaken about the interchangeability of the rear motors, but that's certainly the way it appears in Tesla authored drawings I have seen. This feature is certainly not something anyone needs. The only apparent usage I see is showing off to your friends, but once that's over the $40,000 sting remains. I guess I'm not their audience either.....
     
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  8. mal_tsla

    mal_tsla Member

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    Porsche 911 Carrera S
    4.1s 0-60
    Starting at $105,100

    Porsche 911 Turbo S
    2.8s 0-60
    Starting at $190,700

    Price difference: $85,600

    Sometimes the premium model is priced with exclusivity in mind.

    I aspire to someday be the target audience for those models.
     
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  9. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    If you're giving up family vacations, your kid's tuition, or your retirement funds, then it's obviously not justified. For some, it's not an "or" but an "and" so they are not giving anything up and they enjoy the performance. They've also likely worked hard for their money and they want to enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with that, in my view.
     
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  10. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    of course not. But the majority of people out there and on this forum, throwing away $45k for giggles isn't an option. Dont think there are too many 1%ers lurking haha. But if i made $500k/year then sure why not.
     
  11. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    Around 50% less.
     
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  12. cruiserlarry

    cruiserlarry Gadgetologist

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    The performance vs price difference between the Telsa models and the Porsche models is not analogous...

    The Porsche Turbo S has different body panels, wheels, tires, brakes, engine, exhaust / intake plumbing, software / ECU compared to a Carrera S. That's a substantial difference in hard product, even if they do add some premium mark-up as well. The difference in the P100D vs an S100D appears to be the rear motor, battery programming, Ludicrous mode, metal pedals, and the "P" die cut letter on the back. Same brakes, same tires, wheels, interior, exterior panels, same options available. The "P" upgrade in previous models (P85D, P90D) was no where near that price difference. Even the Ludicrous mode was originally a $5K option on the P85D (still overpriced considering it is mostly a software change, with minor changes to the battery wiring from my understanding), then it went to $10K for the same upgrade / same model (later P85D vehicles / P90D vehicles).

    Just seems like an unfortunate price grab. I'd bet 70% plus of the 90D / 100D owners would have sprung for the P model if it were closer to $10K than the $45K they ask now. I know I would have.
     
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  13. caltechkid

    caltechkid Member

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    Even then in a high cost of living area like LA, SF, SD. etc. with oppressive taxation - $500K isn't enough to just throw away $45k for many.
     
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  14. mal_tsla

    mal_tsla Member

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    #14 mal_tsla, May 13, 2017
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
    Imo, No way the 911 Turbo has $85k worth of improved equipment over the 911 S. It's true that there are more changes than the P100D, but it's also true that the price increase is almost twice as big.
     
  15. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    The P isn't made for the majority of people out there and on this forum. The non-P is.
     
  16. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    #16 Ulmo, May 13, 2017
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
    What the heck? Neither one of those exist. Only 100D and P100D exist. There is no P100, nor P100, nor P100D, only P100D & 100D. That's it.

    Ok, let me describe the modeling codes:
    • P means Performance. This is expected to be for racers and those who want to spend extra money. Margins have always been high for Tesla on Performance models (meaning they make a huge amount of profit on them).
    • 100 means an approximation of how much battery power and energy it has, in kWh for energy. It has more power, too.
    • D means Dual Motor, aka All Wheel Drive. That means it also has a motor in the front, in addition to a motor in the back. Each motor drives the wheels next to it (so no drive shaft from front to back, for instance).
    • _____ The underline underneath P100D means Ludicrous, and refers to an extra mount of performance. At the present time, Tesla only sells P, and does not sell just _____ or just P, so you only have one performance model, the Performance Ludicrous. In addition, the only Power and Energy battery size available for the current Performance Ludicrous is the 100, and they only offer Dual Motor in 100 and above, so that means if you want P or _____, you have to get a P100D. They used to offer P85D, P90D, and then P90D, but they no longer offer those. Sometimes, instead of _____, people use the letter L, like this: P100DL. I don't know if Tesla ever officially refers to any of their cars as P100DL or P90DL or whatever. Like P, Tesla sells Ludicrous for a very high profit (high margin). The fact that Performance and Ludicrous are only available together right now indicates that Tesla is only going to charge an extreme amount of profit for that level of car.
    • Likewise, the non-performance model of 100D is probably going to be for the long-distance budget conscious crowd, and try to shave every cost corner Tesla is willing to do (while still delivering good overall profit margins anyway). This means both less hardware and less weight in the 100D compared to the P100D, and less profit margin as well. It is not meant to be the huge no-holds-barred performance and cash grab deal that Tesla offers in its top of the line. If you want one (top of the line), you have to pay for the other (top profit). For those who want to flash wealth, it is one way to actually show it. Those who are in the slum and want the fastest and quickest Tesla will have to reach higher to afford this highest end model for racing purposes, and will probably achieve that via means that afford them this level of car. Top car means top dollar, however you cut it, in this lineup.
    • Historically, there have also been P85+, P85++, and I think even some other odd variants, like P85D. I believe P85D was one of the first available Ludicrous versions, but I'm not sure (and I actually think it was only available as an upgrade, for a limited time, to limited number of people with a particular battery type). I don't remember what the + stood for.
    • I want to repeat: Performance and Ludicrous have both been synonymous in Tesla modeling with both high price and highest performance. That has never changed. If you want the highest top dollar Tesla, then why would you ever expect to pay anything other than the highest top dollar? Really now. For real.
    • Tesla has been abundantly open about their desire to charge as much as possible to the top dollar car buyers on purpose in order to:
      • Give those top model cars financial status symbols
      • Make the highest (by far) profit margins for Tesla, so that it can continue its other development of further models (Model X, Model 3, PowerWall, PowerPack, Solar Roof, Solar Panel, Semi Truck, Model Y, and many other things).

        In return for this, they offer the top level performance, as a small token of appreciation for the status symbol of most expensive in the lineup.

        I'd argue that compared to the cheaper Tesla models that to me seem like mid-range luxury car models sold as if they are higher-end luxury models from other manufacturers even though they are not, the top level Teslas at least have something extra to offer for their extra cost that the lower end models barely achieve. I miss the better comfort of my Mercedes every day in my Model S, but if I had a P100D, then I'd be a blur so fast I wouldn't even have time to feel uncomfortable. Yes, I just argued the top end Teslas are a better value than the lower end, if you take financial benefit out of the equation, and indeed, this seems to be the profound opinion of many of the P100D buyers that I've seen on this board. As to be expected, I've also noticed that they tend to be the persons most able to afford this type of expenditure for that level of return. On the other hand, some of the P100D buyers expecting wonderful magical be-everything lush perfect dreams are sorely disappointed. That's not Tesla, not by any stretch. And at that level, I wouldn't say any Tesla P100D purchase is a financial benefit (but that's just me and most people I've heard mention it).

        If you don't like any of this, there's plenty of competition, both ICE and Electric Vehicle.
     
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  17. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    If you look at differential pricing within the range, a lot of times things don't makes much sense. But look at the price $140k for the P100D for a car that can do 0-60 in 2.4 seconds.

    Not a whole lot of cars can do 0-60 under 3 seconds especially in the premium sedan market.

    The Panamera Turbo S costs $180k, Panamera Turbo $140k, RS7 $110k, CLS63 AMG $110k. All of these take a bit more than 3 seconds to reach 60. I guess Tesla feels the performance allows them to sell the cars at a higher price.
     
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  18. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    Because they can.
     
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  19. NerdUno

    NerdUno Member

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    Rumor has it that it makes your pee-pee grow bigger.
     
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  20. Brass Guy

    Brass Guy Member

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    @Ulmo the + was a suspension stiffening upgrade only available on the P85. It also included the staggered wheels. I don't think there was ever a ++ though.
     

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