Why does the UI miss so many oncoming vehicles?

[OxBrew]

You think that whoever builds the prettiest UI will win? You could put lipstick on Supercruise, but it will still be a pig.

That's not what he said. He's talking about ease of use, user customizing, and fixing the broken stuff in 2-6 weeks, not 6 months to 3 years.

 

[MikeyC]

Autopilot, the public version, is not intended for use on 2-way, 2-lane roads like that- as the manual points out. So if it's doing anything "wrong" it's because it's not meant for that situation in the first place.


FSDBeta, currently being tested by roughly 60k owners, is meant for that- and even does that MikeyC is asking about regarding moving over to the right for big coming trucks.

Granted, but as far as why only random cars are shown, the above is irrelevant. If it wasn't meant to do that, then just don't do it (don't show any cars). Instead of showing some and not others.

Mike

 

[john5520]

OK. Here is correct answer to the OP’s question.

Our vehicles see and recognize pretty much all incoming vehicles/objects, but simply chooses not to display all the information/detail on the screen. Before I was given access to FSD Beta, I observed the exact same thing as the OP (the display screen was not showing every vehicle as they passed by). Since getting the FSD Beta download, my vehicle now renders/shows pretty much every vehicle/object/pedestrian that I see. It’s surprisingly accurate and a joy to see that much detail rendered/displayed in real time. Nothing has changed on my end from a hardware standpoint. The only difference from before is I now have FSD Beta.
Join the FSD Beta club and then you’ll understand what I’m saying…

This is great to know. I was wondering about this myself because I notice the same thing the OP does.

 

[FLMan]

You think that whoever builds the prettiest UI will win?

I think I said most functional.
Customizable is a plus.

Let's say Ford beats Tesla to city navigation with radar and vision how many people will stick around waiting for a non-existent cybertruck assuming Ford could crank out Mustang and F150 EV's? I'm not saying anyone is even close yet, but the longer Tesla keeps shipping broken software the more opportunity there is.

 

[al503]

Off topic and contentious comment, but: I wish that entire visualizer area would be replaced with status information and vehicle controls. I don’t see the point of devoting that much control surface real estate to a video game that only passengers should be looking at, especially when not even using AP/FSD. I’d rather have one-touch fog light & wiper controls, and at-a-glance trip computer info over there.

I agree. All that wasted space on either side of the temp... Put the heated seats, wiper speed control (although the last update improved it from un-useable to meh) etc., up there and not on a sub screen...

I don't have time to search but I believe Elon said that the width/size of the screen would be user selectable after they increased the width a while back and received some negative feedback.

 

[linkerc]

i have always thought it is the camera’s limitation. It can’t see behind an object. It is easily demonstrated when you are stopped in a red light. UI only shows the immediate cars unless there’s a stagger.

 

[MikeyC]

i have always thought it is the camera’s limitation. It can’t see behind an object. It is easily demonstrated when you are stopped in a red light. UI only shows the immediate cars unless there’s a stagger.

This isn't about obstructions or object permanence. It's the fact that individual cars, completely unobstructed, only have maybe a 25% chance of being detected when going by. On the road I travel most, there will be a car maybe every 3-5 seconds which, at 60 MPH, means they are separated by hundreds of feet of space in between with no one in front of me in my lane either: completely open road. Sometimes it detects them. But most of the time it does not.

Mike

 

[linkerc]

This isn't about obstructions or object permanence. It's the fact that individual cars, completely unobstructed, only have maybe a 25% chance of being detected when going by. On the road I travel most, there will be a car maybe every 3-5 seconds which, at 60 MPH, means they are separated by hundreds of feet of space in between with no one in front of me in my lane either: completely open road. Sometimes it detects them. But most of the time it does not.

Mike

Ok. Maybe could be the distance then. Pay attention to how far your UI shows the car on highway in front of you. It's really not that far to be honest. If it's going the opposite direction at such a high speed, I don't know what it shows. It's around 120 MPH. I hope there's a center divide for 1 lane each way.

 

[stopcrazypp]

^^ Yes.

I can't understand how a company can create such an amazing car with all of the weird and unique engineering concepts it has along with the stylish looks and then completely punt on the software stack.

We had customizable (themed) UI's in the 1990's so it's a little baffling that they can't figure out how to let you theme the entire interface the way you like it and then draw inside the borders the user has defined for it. I'm not even asking to theme the icons, just let me place the icon controls for what I want where I want. A true object-oriented design would bring the functionality along with the widget no matter where you put it.

It also shouldn't take 6 months to a year to combine software stacks unless it's spaghetti code. It's likely too late since the base was probably not built with the future in mind - so it's a complete re-write and re-test at this point.

I feel like they are ahead of the competition at this point in time, but they're really only a good hire by the competition ahead. Whoever builds a clean, updateable control and UI stack will win out in the end. Farming it out to Apple or Google is not the answer, that should always be an add-on (i.e. Car Play) and it SHOULD be an add-on. Who cares if people use it or not, I'd use that instead of Steam / Netflix / etc. GM, Ford, VW, etc. all know by now that the OS is what will win the EV game in the end and I'm sure they have some Tesla's and know they are not out of it.

Since features take so long to arrive with Tesla and are only partially functional (things like auto-high beam and auto-wipers come to mind) it hints that there are some large chinks in the armor. It really shouldn't take more than a Sprint (4-6 weeks) for simple features like these to be delivered, fully tested and fully functional. We're all living in beta-land anyway, so I'd give them 2 Sprints to get it right. But months / years? That's way too long.

Have you tried the UI of the other automakers? They don't change in multiple years and tend to be horrible. That's why Carplay and Android Auto was such a game changer for them. Tesla makes changes comparatively much more quickly (for better or worse). However, Carplay and Android Auto by necessity has to be separate from many car functions, while Tesla's is more heavily integrated. People give Tesla a lot of flack about testing, but looking at the recent recalls, there's a lot of inane regulatory requirements to be concerned about in UI design. It's not quite the same as designing for a computer or cell phone.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Ok. Maybe could be the distance then. Pay attention to how far your UI shows the car on highway in front of you. It's really not that far to be honest. If it's going the opposite direction at such a high speed, I don't know what it shows. It's around 120 MPH. I hope there's a center divide for 1 lane each way.

I should note it's not necessarily detection. If you see the earliest FSD visualizations (with the bounding boxes), you can see that it actually "detects" much more objects than the production visualization shows. The rendering power of most of our cars are an issue too. Most of us only have an Atom processor.

I should also point out the production software is based on only the current frame (does not consider previous frames). There is also no continuity between cameras, so that is why sometimes when a car straddles two cameras, you see flickering. They are changing that for FSD Beta (not sure which version), but AFAIK, AP and the regular visualization is still base on the old system. Tesla covered that on AI Day, starting at 1:03:00:

 

[MikeyC]

Ok. Maybe could be the distance then. Pay attention to how far your UI shows the car on highway in front of you. It's really not that far to be honest. If it's going the opposite direction at such a high speed, I don't know what it shows. It's around 120 MPH. I hope there's a center divide for 1 lane each way.

That was my guess: it's a lag/latency issue. It just comes across as odd. As a software engineer myself, inconsistency is something I try to avoid. I'd rather it show no oncoming traffic than show 25% and miss 75%. Not that it's a big problem but it doesn't "look great". I first noticed it early when I got the car and I was taking my friend for a ride. He said, "Oh, that's cool. It even shows cars going by in the other lane." Then 10 seconds later, "But why didn't it show that one by itself. Or that one. But THAT one did show up?"

As mentioned, I've watched a lot of FSD videos and they are pretty consistent in FSD... so I have hope that some of the UI stuff will trickle down to AP eventually.

Mike

 

[toolman335]

Initially this thread wasn't about Autosteer or FSD. It's about seeing what's coming.
I understand that the car sees more than it shows us, but what's the point of choosing to randomly show us oncoming traffic. Why not eliminate distractions and show us nothing at all?
On a side note, if autosteer/FSD are meant for highway driving, then why do we get shown trash cans? Is that just an option that the car likes to show off to us? Call me crazy, but on highways I don't see many Waste Management trash bins.
How about Tesla stops trying to distract us until the system is ready for prime time?

 

[Knightshade]

On a side note, if autosteer/FSD are meant for highway driving, then why do we get shown trash cans? Is that just an option that the car likes to show off to us?

You'd confusing two entirely different features.

AP is for highways only. It's not intended to be used where there's oncoming traffic, so the system has no reason to focus on showing all oncoming traffic.

As mentioned, those in FSDbeta do see all oncoming traffic on screen (as the computer itself does, but does not always display if you're on regular AP).


The display is for everything though. Including things like regular city FSD features such as autopark....and also, yes, it IS an option for the car to show off, it's called FSD Preview View. You can turn it off if you don't want to see it.

 

[toolman335]

You'd confusing two entirely different features.

AP is for highways only. It's not intended to be used where there's oncoming traffic, so the system has no reason to focus on showing all oncoming traffic.

As mentioned, those in FSDbeta do see all oncoming traffic on screen (as the computer itself does, but does not always display if you're on regular AP).


The display is for everything though. Including things like regular city FSD features such as autopark....and also, yes, it IS an option for the car to show off, it's called FSD Preview View. You can turn it off if you don't want to see it.

I'm not confusing the features. The point is why waste our time showing a percentage of cars in oncoming traffic? Why show trash cans? What's the point? It can only serve to distract us.

 

[MikeyC]

I'm not confusing the features. The point is why waste our time showing a percentage of cars in oncoming traffic? Why show trash cans? What's the point? It can only serve to distract us.

Right. I feel like the objection is getting glossed over. If you can't show oncoming traffic properly, then don't show it at all. And if you activate the FSD preview (which I have), it should probably work in these situations... like FSD does. Otherwise why call it FSD preview? I realize it isn't "FSD Beta Preview" but maybe when FSD beta is released to all, maybe the preview will solve it. And AP might be "designed for" highways, but it does work on two lane roads with oncoming traffic (thankfully). So in those situations, I think it should either show oncoming traffic reliably or not at all. Don't show a few cars but not most, like it does now.

Mike

 

[Knightshade]

I'm not confusing the features. The point is why waste our time

How is it "wasting your time"?

You're supposed to be watching the road when driving on a road like that, not the visualization on the display.

showing a percentage of cars in oncoming traffic? Why show trash cans? What's the point? It can only serve to distract us.

Again you're legit mixing up two different things.

If I'm making a 3 point turn in my driveway (which I sometimes need to do), seeing where the recycling can is, since I'm stopped when about to change direction, is actually useful. Because that's something in "normal" driving I might otherwise hit once I begin to move.

An oncoming car in an opposing lane isn't something you might actually hit unless you're drunk. Or, I suppose, watching the screen instead of the road


But again if the trash cans are SUPER DISTRACTING and you CAN NOT help yourself from staring at them while actively driving, you can turn that off.

it's an optional preview feature.

 

[duanra]

The detection of other cars or obstacles is not reliable. I can't count the number of times the car warned me after the obstacle was behind me.
However it will scream at me if there is a 1 cm mount of snow on the street

The only good thing for safety Tesla added lately is the option of activating the cameras when you use your turn indicator.

 

[smatthew]

Here's a video from 2018 showing the car was already seeing all the objects on the road.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Initially this thread wasn't about Autosteer or FSD. It's about seeing what's coming.
I understand that the car sees more than it shows us, but what's the point of choosing to randomly show us oncoming traffic. Why not eliminate distractions and show us nothing at all?
On a side note, if autosteer/FSD are meant for highway driving, then why do we get shown trash cans? Is that just an option that the car likes to show off to us? Call me crazy, but on highways I don't see many Waste Management trash bins.
How about Tesla stops trying to distract us until the system is ready for prime time?

Other's pointed out it's an optional "preview". The idea is to attract you to buy FSD, which gets you access to more advanced versions if you like what you see. If you feel it's a distraction to can turn it off. It's akin to the free FSD trials or the later FSD subscription and not a idea in general for tech.

 

[john5520]

That was my guess: it's a lag/latency issue. It just comes across as odd. As a software engineer myself, inconsistency is something I try to avoid. I'd rather it show no oncoming traffic than show 25% and miss 75%. Not that it's a big problem but it doesn't "look great". I first noticed it early when I got the car and I was taking my friend for a ride. He said, "Oh, that's cool. It even shows cars going by in the other lane." Then 10 seconds later, "But why didn't it show that one by itself. Or that one. But THAT one did show up?"

As mentioned, I've watched a lot of FSD videos and they are pretty consistent in FSD... so I have hope that some of the UI stuff will trickle down to AP eventually.

Mike

I agree. Sans FSD Beta, it should still be able to detect the surrounding vehicles with greater accuracy. I have little reason to doubt it will trickle down to non-FSD cars, but sometimes Tesla's priorities and decision making leave me bewildered.