Why don't people compare range while comparing with ICE cars?

[S'toon]

What I've found strange the last few years in car ads is when they talk about how far the car/truck can go without refueling, but don't mention the fuel economy. So, a car with lousy fuel economy but a huge gas tank is a good thing all of a sudden?

 

[gambit48]

Well, selling 750,000 in a year (Ford F series) suggests a lot of people are ok with that.

 

[traxila]

Lol. This is the main reason that EVs aren't taken seriously. There are some downsides to EVs, and when you answer a logical downside to EV range with what sounds like a religious fervor you throw away any chance the other person has of taking you seriously.

I'm getting a Model 3. You needn't convince me to buy one. But I also understand that there are sacrifices to having one. There are also related upsides, such as not having to ever stop for gas in my daily driving. Refusing to acknowledge any downside, or that another person might have a different view from yours about how serious a problem gas is won't do you any favors.

I think that your goal isn't to convince anyone though, rather to feel morally superior about your choices.

Um, I dunno about previous posts, but gasoline is toxic. It does stink. The idea of touching my face after fueling always did bother me. Acknowledging that one of the main improvements in everyday life with a complete EV revolution would be the removal of almost all gas infrastructure and its toxic status in both liquid and incinerated form does not qualify as religious fervor.

Think the opposite argument might have some traction: a deluded and religious fervor cause us to introduce gasoline and it's byproducts everywhere in our every day environment.

 

[Stolz25]

Um, I dunno about previous posts, but gasoline is toxic. It does stink. The idea of touching my face after fueling always did bother me. Acknowledging that one of the main improvements in everyday life with a complete EV revolution would be the removal of almost all gas infrastructure and its toxic status in both liquid and incinerated form does not qualify as religious fervor.

Think the opposite argument might have some traction: a deluded and religious fervor cause us to introduce gasoline and it's byproducts everywhere in our every day environment.

I don't disagree, about the stinking, but 99% of drivers are dealing with this and clearly not bothered by it that much or they'd be clamoring for electric cars already without you telling them it stinks.

When you come out and tell people that something they've dealt with everyday for 50 years is poison, as if they are crazy, it comes off like you are the one completely out of touch, not them.

 

[EchoDelta]

Thanks for the tip. It's as I feared though. In a 20 mile radius around me, there are 5 Fast DC chargers, 3 are at a university parking lot that requires a permit, 2 are paid lots. There's a few scattered around at hotels too.

Basically nothing's really changed from when I put my Model 3 reservation down. But then that's why I went with Tesla: access to the Supercharger network.

I wouldn't underestimate L2s with good amperage. A picnic in a park can easily yield 100 miles of charge. My guess: it'll be less of an issue than you predict, and the challenges will be different. If I were you I'd sign up for the likely 3..5 charging networks in the area to make sure you have always the fob/card to make it seamless. Here in the seattle area that means Chargepoint, evgo, semacharge, blink iirc. Haven't thought about it in years.

 

[Robert831]

I don't disagree, about the stinking, but 99% of drivers are dealing with this and clearly not bothered by it that much or they'd be clamoring for electric cars already without you telling them it stinks.

When you come out and tell people that something they've dealt with everyday for 50 years is poison, as if they are crazy, it comes off like you are the one completely out of touch, not them.

Every gas pump in California is clearly labeled, stating that gasoline causes cancer. It's common knowledge, not being out of touch.

 

[Stolz25]

Every gas pump in California is clearly labeled, stating that gasoline causes cancer. It's common knowledge, not being out of touch.

Yup, and the rest of the country makes jokes about California for this kind of thing.

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying if your hope is that people give up their gas powered cars, accusing them of destroying the world and treating gas like poison won't get the result you want.

 

[Stevebb]

And density of super chargers is expanding 3X per Elon at the delivery event. That means some without home charging might get to use a semi-local super charger for their "home" charge. Yes there will be a fee but is gas free?
Also some commuters get to charge at work (an ever growing perk).

 

[SageBrush]

Yup, and the rest of the country makes jokes about California for this kind of thing.

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying if your hope is that people give up their gas powered cars, accusing them of destroying the world and treating gas like poison won't get the result you want.

We should tell them that heated steering wheels are rumored to be on the way and free. That is apparently a thing some deeply care about. Oh, and xtra, xtra large soda pop holders, too.

 

[larmor]

I wouldn't underestimate L2s with good amperage. A picnic in a park can easily yield 100 miles of charge. My guess: it'll be less of an issue than you predict, and the challenges will be different. If I were you I'd sign up for the likely 3..5 charging networks in the area to make sure you have always the fob/card to make it seamless. Here in the seattle area that means Chargepoint, evgo, semacharge, blink iirc. Haven't thought about it in years.

Destination charging is going to be a huge market, not for the charging per se, but to lock in customers who are shopping, and want a charge. They are likely to extend their shopping trip. Longer times in stores means more purchases. I'm still surprised that the outlets at Tejon don't put up their own SC's, i would have bought so much unnecessary stuff if they did when charging at tejon ranch...

 

[Barklikeadog]

*Puts on waders.*

My F150 gets over 600 miles of range on a full tank so it's definitely a better car than any Tesla.

Did I do it right? Do I win?

*high5*
36 gallon tank greatest invention since the bikini

 

[gambit48]

Destination charging is going to be a huge market, not for the charging per se, but to lock in customers who are shopping, and want a charge. They are likely to extend their shopping trip. Longer times in stores means more purchases. I'm still surprised that the outlets at Tejon don't put up their own SC's, i would have bought so much unnecessary stuff if they did when charging at tejon ranch...

Frankly, I'm a little surprised all the outlets and regular malls don't put in more superchargers. My local mall is on the Supercharger map, but the superchargers technically aren't on mall property. It's some random store that bought land there and the mall was built around them. The mall itself only has about 4 regular electric charging stations. All for an area with an electric car demographic so good, Tesla built their store for the whole region roughly 5 miles away.

 

[larmor]

Frankly, I'm a little surprised all the outlets and regular malls don't put in more superchargers. My local mall is on the Supercharger map, but the superchargers technically aren't on mall property. It's some random store that bought land there and the mall was built around them. The mall itself only has about 4 regular electric charging stations. All for an area with an electric car demographic so good, Tesla built their store for the whole region roughly 5 miles away.

Even a L2 chargers are a great idea for attraction and retention of customers.

 

[TrickyDimitri]

Yup, and the rest of the country makes jokes about California for this kind of thing.

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying if your hope is that people give up their gas powered cars, accusing them of destroying the world and treating gas like poison won't get the result you want.

I agree with both, but as they say you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

[JonathanD]

There will be a tipping point at which driving a gas car will start to be seen like cigarette smoking in public.

I have young kids and they complain about mommy's car (Acura MDX) because it's stinky and dad's isn't. Clock is ticking.

 

[SpiceWare]

I have young kids and they complain about mommy's car (Acura MDX) because it's stinky and dad's isn't. Clock is ticking.

This reminded me of visiting some friends in Corpus Christi back when gas stations down there where first installing the vapor recovery systems (this was a few(?) years after they'd been installed at stations here in Houston). They'd made a comment on how awkward refueling had become (those early designs were rather cumbersome with the bulky rubber boot that sealed against the tank opening). I replied that yeah, it takes a bit to get used to, but now that I was I really hated it when I had to refuel on road trips to smaller towns like CC as my clothing acquired the stench of gas.

 

[Mark Vallaster]

I see many articles comparing model 3 with BMW 3 series. But none compare the range. Why is that? A BMW 330i has I think 400 miles range. But Model 3 base has just 220. Also BMW has fast refueling time compared to model 3. And for people without a garage or for long distance travel, this is important.

I am not telling Model 3 is bad or anything. It has better features in the base model than the bmw, but the comparison should be done fairly.

um, because for ICE cars there's a gas station every 7 feet as you drive down the highway. For us, "refueling" requires a bit more strategy.

 

[Mark Vallaster]

What if I told you that even most solid middle class flats don`t have guaranteed private parking spots. And last time I checked most public parking spots on the street didn`t have charger spots.....

Too bad reality exists outside these forums, right?

I have a friend that ordered a model 3 early. They lived in an apartment building that had a charger in their garage. They just bought a condo with no parking at all -- only onstreet. they are betting on reverse charging. Meaning they can charge in a garage at work and then let it sit while they are at home.

mmmmmm.

 

[gowthamn]

I have a friend that ordered a model 3 early. They lived in an apartment building that had a charger in their garage. They just bought a condo with no parking at all -- only onstreet. they are betting on reverse charging. Meaning they can charge in a garage at work and then let it sit while they are at home.

mmmmmm.

So they have a charger at work. Many don't have that too.

 

[gregd]

Frankly, I'm a little surprised all the outlets and regular malls don't put in more superchargers.

L2 "destination" chargers, yes, but I think Superchargers are inappropriate at a mall. Same at a movie theater. The charging is too quick. Very few can get any sort of shopping (window or otherwise) done in the short time needed to get a typical charge bump. L2 charging (48 amp, 208 volt) would give one several hours of productive shopping and productive charging in parallel.