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Why don't the maps buffer?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by brianp6621, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Superendo

    Superendo Member

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    In the Netherlands that is not an issue, cellular coverage is almost perfect And a road trip to Berlin and zwitserland was also perfectly covered.
     
  2. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Well-Known Member

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    Folks, there's a lot more to maps than just "loading them"

    First, for base street maps, those are probably in the multiple gigabyte size now. Downloading over cellular can get expensive and slow. These are vector based maps, so they can be sized to whatever size you want. This is commonly what is provided in handheld GPSs and many vehicles.

    The satellite imagery is something else. It is quite large in size. I wouldn't be surprised if the satellite imagery is probably 1,000 times the size of the vector imagery for a particular view. But what makes it worse is that there are many views. As you zoom in and out, the maps have to load new imagery. A certain magnification may cover +- 50% zoom, but there are often a dozen levels of zoom, so that means that you have to keep a dozen copies of the data. Now granted, a zoomed out view of the US is pretty easy to store, but when zoomed in, that's terabytes of information.

    From what I can tell and expect, the cars carry the vector information, along with databases for points of interest and the Speed Limits. It gets updated real time over the LTE connection with traffic information. Take away the LTE and you lose traffic and the satellite imagery. The remainder should be in the car.

    To the original poster's comment, maybe it is just the time that it takes for the computer to lookup the information, process it, rasterize it, and send it to the display. It is not a simple process, it does take some computing power.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Disagree x 1
  3. ucmndd

    ucmndd Well-Known Member

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    “Should” be as it may, it’s very obviously not.

    If your car is out of cellular range, it renders blank gray map tiles. Every time.

    At least with the non-vector maps in MCU 1 cars right now.
     
  4. Zaxxon

    Zaxxon Supporting Member

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    And in the Model 3, which uses vector maps AFAIK.
     
  5. whitex

    whitex Well-Known Member

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    Why then does the car show blank grey maps for as long as 30 minutes when traveling through areas without cell coverage? If it has the vector data, should it not have shown it (assume satellite view not enabled, I never use it)? Are you saying that the vector data has grey holes matching the areas without cell coverage?
     
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  6. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    As I recall (as an early 2012 S P85 owner)…

    Tesla originally promised with the Tech or Sound Studio package that we'd be able to store music using onboard storage, which was not supported in the early software releases.

    At some point, Tesla changed their plans, and removed that feature from marketing - evidently because they planned to use that onboard storage for storing map data.

    But, we still don't have local storage for the satellite maps.

    The overall concept of storing navigation map data is a throwback to the previous generation systems that used optical or hard disk storage for maps. Those systems provided a database for huge areas (such as all of North America) and were updated annually (or even less frequently).

    Since Tesla has internet access, we really don't need the entire map database stored on board - only enough for a reasonable radius around the car - such as 500 to 1000 miles - which would be a small subset of the map database. And when your car is moving close to leaving that area, then the small amount of data for the adjacent area could be loaded.

    Similarly the satellite map data changes infrequently. Certainly while you are driving in an area, the map data should change that often - and Tesla should be able to cache the satellite data for the area around the car - and not have to keep going back to Google to download each map "square" every time it is drawn.

    Tesla could do more on the software side to more efficiently use the onboard storage - provide more accurate data - while also efficiently using the internet connection.
     
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  7. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    You are assuming that Google would allow them to cache the satellite map data, which is highly unlikely.
     
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  8. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Maybe part of the new premium Internet plan will cover licensing cache support from Google...

    Adding this feature would significantly reduce the internet traffic used by the console map - which is likely spending most of the time sending the same map fragments to each car, over and over again...
     
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  9. brianp6621

    brianp6621 Member

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    For the second time in this thread, and I'm not the only person to tell you this, you're wrong.

    Without a data connection, Tesla nav shows nothing but blank grey tiles. It MAY have the actually maps info/locations but as far as visible content, you get 0 without a data connection.
     
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  10. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Well-Known Member

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    Wow, so you mean last week when I didn't have cellular coverage and the maps went blank, that when I turned off the satellite view and the roads appeared, didn't happen? I will say that is was a Model 3, so maybe there is a difference in functionality between vehicles.
     
  11. Zaxxon

    Zaxxon Supporting Member

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    I can't speak to yours, but my Model 3 does not load either satellite or 'normal' tiles when there is no data connection. The road tiles that it has already loaded will remain, of course, but if I continue on my trip and veer off the loaded tiles, I get nothing but the line of my route.
     
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  12. brianp6621

    brianp6621 Member

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    Yes, I'd say it didn't happen as you describe (either you stayed on the map tiles already loaded or you actually did have intermittent cellular coverage) as no-one else including in Model 3s seems to be able to replicate your observation, exactly the opposite in fact, everyone else concurs that map tiles (not just satellite images) do not load/cache without LTE.
     
  13. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Well-Known Member

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  14. EVCarGUy

    EVCarGUy Member

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    Model S and X have built in street maps that can be displayed on either side of the instrument cluster display when a route is active. That display is in addition to and different from the google mapping data shown on the center display.
     
  15. henderrj

    henderrj Member

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    I have a early AP1 car and I've driven multiple cross-country trips in it. I tend to take lots of back roads and I can assure you there's almost no caching of maps, satellite or not. The grey tile syndrome is a real deal! I believe there was only one time, somewhere in the middle of New Mexico, where I went about 20 minutes with no tiles. Normally is only a few minutes.
     
    • Informative x 1
  16. scottrobertson

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    It does have some kind of cache. If you reboot the car, it shows the map before it's even connected to the network.
     
  17. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    I believe it just saves the current set of tiles.

    My understanding was that Google wouldn't let Tesla cache maps offline the way you can with a phone, although to tell the truth, I'm not sure where that belief came from, nor is it obvious to me why Google would care.
     
  18. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because Google can track you if you are downloading tiles continuously and can't if you just have them all stored offline?
     
  19. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Active Member

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    Hi - I can confirm that an area I go through regularly which never has cell coverage does have map tiles. I assume it's because it has picked them up when I come in from each edge. I have not tested in an area with zero coverage, but since it seems to cache where you have been but not load the tiles in anticipation, I expect I would be able to find some grey areas if I looked.

    So at least one person can replicate the observation that there can be map tiles with no coverage at the time.

    Any chance you're using USB for music? It seems possible that could be using some of the storage up for metadata caching.
     

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