Why electric vehicles are a bad investment

[hgmichna]

It's different in different places. In Germany a used Model 3 RWD, without any price-raising options, that is a half year or one year old sells for more than the effective price of new, so it's actually a very good investment.

The reason is that

1. Germany refunds €6,000, the manufacturer (Tesla) another €3,000 when you buy a new one.
2. Some neighboring countries, like Denmark, don't do this, but they charge an extra luxury tax on new cars, new meaning younger than 6 months or driven for less than 6,000 km.

Thus the Danes and other neighbors prefer to buy used Teslas from Germany over buying new ones in Denmark.

What's funny about this is that some newspapers now complain about abuse of subsidies. But when you look closer, you find that the German state still earns some extra money through this, because 19% VAT on a new car is more than the state subsidy on the same car, not to mention import duties. So if the complainants get their way, and Germany stops this, for example, by extending the required holding time for the subsidy to more than a half year, that would be a stroke of genius that at the same time damages the German state finances due to loss of tax income and the climate due to fewer electric cars.

In fact, there are only winners in this scheme, with just one exception. The Danish state misses out on its luxury tax.

I wonder what will happen. The leftists of course hate it when people who are already well-off get extra perks. That has a higher priority for them than the climate. As long as they can "bash the rich", they will do it. They may yet force the politicians' hands to stop this "subsidy misuse".

Sorry for drifting a bit off-topic, but it's just too funny to leave out.

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is an objective financial analysis.

2023 Tesla Model 3 Vs 2023 Honda Accord Hybrid: 5-Year Ownership Cost

How much cheaper it is to own an EV versus an ICE or hybrid vehicle?

insideevs.com

"Factoring in all of the above, the total cost of ownership for a Model 3 RWD is $38,016 ($0.51 per mile) meanwhile total cost for an Accord Hybrid EX-L is $40,246 ($0.54 per mile). As for the Long Range Model 3, total 5-year cost of ownership is $42,990 ($0.57 per mile) while the Accord Hybrid Touring comes in at $42,772 ($0.57 per mile). One thing that wasn't factored in is local / state incentives, hence in all scenarios the Model 3 is likely cheaper to own, despite the high initial cost."

 

[tfan2018]

TCO swings to favor EV with solar and powerwall. Can’t beat free fuel after 7 years!

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I did not buy EV’s as an investment, it is not my motivation.

I see what you did there.

 

[h2ofun]

True but all kinds of car "enthusiasts" existed before EV.


No worse than the batteries in your PW's that have even more expensive batteries.


Wow ... what car do you have and how many miles? Very few cars last that long.

1990 nissan maxima 120k miles. My grandfather bought new, then went to my dad, my kids, and now me.

 

[nwdiver]

1990 nissan maxima 120k miles. My grandfather bought new, then went to my dad, my kids, and now me.

For the other ~97% of us that drive >4k miles/yr EVs make a TON of sense.

Just hit 200k last week. That would have been >$30k in fuel alone in a comparable car. Not counting oil changes, tune-ups, brake pads, spark plugs, etc, etc.

But.... I will agree that if you're going to buy a car to ~never drive ICE does make more sense.

 

[h2ofun]

For the other ~97% of us that drive >4k miles/yr EVs make a TON of sense.

Just hit 200k last week. That would have been >$30k in fuel alone in a comparable car. Not counting oil changes, tune-ups, brake pads, spark plugs, etc, etc.


View attachment 787639

But.... I will agree that if you're going to buy a car to ~never drive ICE does make more sense.

I drive like 4K per year. Show me the ROI with ALL costs for a new 70K EV. And I do have enough solar to charge for 100%. I get 20 mpg with my car.

 

[thesmokingman]

Stop linking horse *sugar* articles, you're only putting bread on their table.

 

[nwdiver]

I drive like 4K per year. Show me the ROI with ALL costs for a new 70K EV. And I do have enough solar to charge for 100%. I get 20 mpg with my car.

.....

For the other ~97% of us that drive >4k miles/yr EVs make a TON of sense.

In your case owning a car doesn't make any financial sense. Just call an Uber for your one trip a week.

 

[pilotSteve]

For the other ~97% of us that drive >4k miles/yr EVs make a TON of sense.

Just hit 200k last week. That would have been >$30k in fuel alone in a comparable car. Not counting oil changes, tune-ups, brake pads, spark plugs, etc, etc.


View attachment 787639

But.... I will agree that if you're going to buy a car to ~never drive ICE does make more sense.

I remember so fondly that speedometer from my 2012 Sig85. Would LOVE to have that classic interface again as an option today! Please Elon, I would gladly pay $69 for it……

 

[drtimhill]

Why electric vehicles are a bad investment

Amid tougher emissions regulations worldwide, established automakers are racing to add more electric vehicles to their lineup.

www.washingtontimes.com

Gutter reporting, nothing to see here.

 

[ucmndd]

I drive like 4K per year. Show me the ROI with ALL costs for a new 70K EV. And I do have enough solar to charge for 100%. I get 20 mpg with my car.

ROI compared to a 1990 Nissan Maxima?

There’s no point in that. The fact that it’s usually cheaper to keep the car you have does not obviate the need for the market to produce new cars.

 

[electricar]

1990 nissan maxima 120k miles. My grandfather bought new, then went to my dad, my kids, and now me.

No doubt those were good cars for their day but the advances in safety equipment alone in the last 32 years makes any modern car a far more sensible choice for daily transportation.

 

[h2ofun]

No doubt those were good cars for their day but the advances in safety equipment alone in the last 32 years makes any modern car a far more sensible choice for daily transportation.

If you got the money to spend, easy to be sensible.

I did look some the other day at plug in hybrids. Looked at a mini van. But just cannot make sense to spend 10K more for this compared to the ice version. But who knows, still trying to get 5 EV chargers installed in my garage, but with code, need to find if I can install any.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I'm open to reading other opinions, but that's a rather breathy "but but but" article.

Pure electric cars the UK are driven an average of 9,435 miles per year

Miles driven in first 3 years of ownership in the UK.
BEVs: 9435 miles/year
Diesel:12,496
Petrol: 7,490

It's not the cars.

 

[dgpcolorado]

For the other ~97% of us that drive >4k miles/yr EVs make a TON of sense.

Just hit 200k last week. That would have been >$30k in fuel alone in a comparable car. Not counting oil changes, tune-ups, brake pads, spark plugs, etc, etc.


View attachment 787639

But.... I will agree that if you're going to buy a car to ~never drive ICE does make more sense.

Similar for me. Bought my S-60 used because I couldn't afford a new one. It is my only car and I live in a remote rural area where public transportation, including Uber, doesn't exist.

In six years I've put 122k miles on the car, most from long roadtrips, at a fuel cost of zero. So, more than 20k miles a year, higher than most but not unusual for rural folks.

Haven't paid an electric bill, save for the monthly service charge, since 2012, when I expanded my solar array to 2170 watts. So, I suppose I've saved $10k to $20k in fuel costs, depending on what comparable car mpg and cost of gas one uses over that time.

Not that anyone buying now can match the zero fuel cost since free Supercharging is gone. However, even paid Supercharging on road trips works out to be cheaper than buying gas for an equivalent car.

 

[nwdiver]

Looked at a mini van. But just cannot make sense to spend 10K more for this compared to the ice version.

Totally. People keep telling me I 'need' to get a new couch. But that's like.... ~$1,000 and a new couch won't save me a dime. I type that into my calculator and even it can't figure that one out.

Why would I pay money for a nice couch when this one was free? What an awful investment.

 

[ucmndd]

But just cannot make sense to spend 10K more for this compared to the ice version.

Assuming you're talking about a Pacifica - I have one. $10k more for the hybrid is remarkably simple to "make sense" of, particularly in California.

For starters, the ~$10k difference is immediately reduced by a $7,500 federal tax credit and $750 CA clean fuel rebate. You're also quite likely eligible for a $1,000 CA state rebate. So we're already down to a transaction price difference of only $750.

The ICE version gets 22 mpg combined. The hybrid, even if you NEVER plug it in, gets 30 mpg.

Even at your paltry 4,000 miles per year, with gas at $5/gal, you'll save that extra $750 in fuel over 3 years at most. If you actually plug the car in and charge from your free excess solar, you'll come out ahead in the first year.

It's hard to NOT make sense of buying the hybrid.

 

[h2ofun]

Totally. People keep telling me I 'need' to get a new couch. But that's like.... ~$1,000 and a new couch won't save me a dime. I type that into my calculator and even it can't figure that one out.

Why would I pay money for a nice couch when this one was free? What an awful investment.

View attachment 787880

I have onwed a house for like 40 years. 99% of the furniture in is was given to use. And trust me, its nice stuff. Does it all match, nope. Is it current style, nope. But guess what I retired at 52, and live in a real nice house on a lake. Others can drive their fancy cars and toys, I love retirement.

 

[nwdiver]

Others can drive their fancy cars and toys, I love retirement.

So.... wouldn't 'fancy cars and toys are a terrible investment' be a better title for this thread? Some EVs are a great 'investment'. I know people that bought a used LEAF for $6k and are saving ~$2k/yr on maintenance and fuel costs. Then.... how do you account for externalities? No street level pollution. No need to deliver gas to cities. No funding of murderous petro-crats. Re-fueling at home. Wasting less renewable energy from curtailment. More energy security. Etc. Etc.

ANY new car is a bad 'investment'. We should stop manufacturing new ICE yesterday.