Why Elon Musk refuses to put the 4680 battery in Model S and X

[F_vo]

Why we need a battery with higher range. At least 400 miles.

We really do need a battery of that range. I give here my thoughts.

I drive twice a year to the South of France for some 1053 km of 655 miles.

We leave fully charged for fre thanks to our solar system.

We stop around Beaune for the night, can charge in the hotel for free, have diner and no worries for the alcohol.

We do 387 miles or 623 km, so with a 400 miles battery we should be able to get there, give or take.
The day after we do the last 285 miles or 453 km and we arrive without paying anything or the electricity.

When we go back, it is the same way, we charge and pay when we leave and get electricity in Beaune for free.

However with a car that can charge only 300 miles we must pay the bill.

We also go to France for business some 4-5 times a year, charge free at home, drive to Beaune and only have to pay for the miles we drive there and the miles back, since we are in an appartment and not hotel.

So what i am saying hers is: with a battery of at least 400 miles we have to pay less on the road.

I know a higher rnarge is not what everybody wants, but the haighe the range the less you have to charge on the way, saving you time

So Elon, you are wrong here.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

nothing is free... you pay the hotel bill, you paid or are paying for the solar.

 

[Yelobird]

Move closer, problem solved! Why not ask for a Million mile battery then you never need to charge. Umphhh

 

[AMPd]

Move closer, problem solved! Why not ask for a Million mile battery then you never need to charge. Umphhh

Million mile battery? That’s gonna require a few extra drinks at dinner to finish charging.

 

[UncleCreepy]

Just stop at a supercharger for 10-20 minutes while grabbing a coffee or taking a **** and you're good. There is no need to carry an even heavier battery with you.

That's all the troll food I have for today

 

[Darmie]

Tesla does not believe range higher than what is on the market now is truly needed. I believe Elon commented on this when they pulled the Plaid + (500 miles) off the market.

 

[advocate8]

This is just a misguided post. 4680s do not currently perform better than the batteries you have.

 

[Resist]

Tesla does not believe range higher than what is on the market now is truly needed. I believe Elon commented on this when they pulled the Plaid + (500 miles) off the market.

And Elon is wrong. Consumers want more range, not that they are worried about finding a place to charge. It's that they just don't want to stop so often to charge. That's the biggest complaint my non EV friends have issues with.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

This is just a misguided post. 4680s do not currently perform better than the batteries you have.

Exactly. The point of 4680 is to simplify manufacturing and assembly - to save money, which is not as big a priority on the low volume premium models.

 

[Brando]

... they just don't want to stop so often to charge. That's the biggest complaint my non EV friends have issues with.

I wanted to get wine for dinner, so I asked a non-wine drinker for his opinion. I'm so smart, no?

 

[ucmndd]

And Elon is wrong. Consumers want more range, not that they are worried about finding a place to charge. It's that they just don't want to stop so often to charge. That's the biggest complaint my non EV friends have issues with.

Consumers don’t know what they want. Most people with EV objections actually aren’t interested in any rational discussion on the topic and just want to throw out excuses to make themselves feel better about change being hard and scary.

They might think they want more range, but right now that means a 6,000 pound car that costs north of $150k.

RE “stopping so often to charge” - basically nobody drives more than ~300 miles without stopping, ever. It’s a fabricated excuse.

Just like our OP… he wants to spend $20k more for a 500 mile battery so he can save $4 charging away from home. Brilliant!

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Consumers don’t know what they want. Most people with EV objections actually aren’t interested in any rational discussion on the topic and just want to throw out excuses to make themselves feel better about change being hard and scary.

They might think they want more range, but right now that means a 6,000 pound car that costs north of $150k.

RE “stopping so often to charge” - basically nobody drives more than ~300 miles without stopping, ever. It’s a fabricated excuse.

Just like our OP… he wants to spend $20k more for a 500 mile battery so he can save $4 charging away from home. Brilliant!

I'd nuance this a bit more.

A LOT of people would be able to enjoy at mythical 600-mile-range Tesla.

Elon's stance is that the cost and added weight of trying to make such a thing, combined with it's actual frequency of need doesn't make it worth doing. There's a market, but when all factors are included, it's a tiny market.

You can throw cubic-tons-of-battery at range. Several makers are promising it - and the result appears to be 150-200 kwh batteries weighing an extra 1000 pounds, reducing everyday efficiency and raising costs into the mid $100k's. And then of course you have to wait to charge that enormous pack to full.... Elon is looking at a solid everyday pack, and superchargers that let you grab 50% range in 10 minutes whenever you want a pause on your journey. That won't serve the drive-into-the-wilderness or towing crowd. But that's not who most of us are.

 

[ucmndd]

There's a market, but when all factors are included, it's a tiny market.

Agree. And in a materials/battery constrained environment, Tesla has to choose between selling one ultra long range car or 2-3 regular vehicles. It’s an easy choice.

 

[Olle]

It’s even simpler than that. Every Tesla activity is measured against the goal of ‘accelerating the worlds transition to sustainable energy’. Displacing ICE with EVs as fast as possible does that. Production is bursting at the seams and waitlist is a year long and increasing. The bottleneck vs the mission is therefore production volume. Would increased range solve the bottleneck?

 

[AMPd]

Consumers don’t know what they want. Most people with EV objections actually aren’t interested in any rational discussion on the topic and just want to throw out excuses to make themselves feel better about change being hard and scary.

They might think they want more range, but right now that means a 6,000 pound car that costs north of $150k.

RE “stopping so often to charge” - basically nobody drives more than ~300 miles without stopping, ever. It’s a fabricated excuse.

Just like our OP… he wants to spend $20k more for a 500 mile battery so he can save $4 charging away from home. Brilliant!

Can you imagine, a 6000 pound car… on a car that has suspension components which have trouble carrying a 5k pound car with the amount of torque.

Not to mention the added tire wear from a heavier car.

The current range is perfect IMO. I used to think I wanted more range until I actually paid attention to how we do road trips and realized with 2 kids I HAVE to stop way before the car needs to charge. Kids just don’t in their car seats for 5 straight hours.

 

[FirstInTown]

But, the fact that Teslas in the winter don't do ANYWHERE near the EPA rating with snow, cold and highway speeds makes a 400 or 500 mile EPA car a needed thing for those of us in the cold northern area of the country. Because 400 miles, ain't really 400 miles in these conditions!

I didn't feel comfortable taking our 371 mile EPA rated 2020 X (longest rated X ever by the way) the 220 miles to our cabin. As hard as it may seem for some to believe there were ZERO high speed DCFC on the route. So we took our old Caddy SRX and burn gas in the winter. That works for us becaue we have an extra car, but for long term, that is NOT a solution. (We need more Super Chargers in the midwest/Northern Wis, and The U.P. OR more range to make us self sufficient.)

SO there IS a S.C. coming on the route in Minnoqua WI. But it's not there yet and we are at the mercy of when Tesla decides to put that in.

And our new 2022 MX LOST range because of the larger motors for the 150+ HP boost no one was asking for in the long range model. (It will probably just chew through front axels faster than the old model) Hopefully the new heat pump makes up for the fact the LR is now rated at 348 EPA miles in 2022 vs 371 in late 2020. (Your Going The Wrong Way to quote Places, Train, and Automobiles)

 

[Resist]

ICE vehicles lose MPG in colder weather too. But I agree that EV's need way more range to win over more people and because they lose range while parked (phantom drain). 300 miles should be the very minimum and 500 miles should be the norm.

 

[Tozz]

While I don't agree with the reasons OP has given, I would very much like a higher-mile EV. I currently drive a S100D and especially in winter times, I'd really like a few more kWh's.

Do i need them regularly? No.
Is it sometimes very inconvenient to have to charge? Yes, definitely.

There has been a few times where an extra 50 kWh would have been great, and I would be willing to pay extra for those occasions.

Examples are visiting friends where there is no charger nearby and I can't make a round trip on 1 charge.
Trips in the middle of the night when I'm tired and just want to get home.

Furthermore, 6 out of 12 months of the year I charge exclusively on solar. My EVSE is limited to whatever PV output I have. No sun, no charge.
I'd love to have a bit of extra spare charge to overcome a day or two of bad weather.

 

[terranx]

ICE vehicles lose MPG in colder weather too. But I agree that EV's need way more range to win over more people and because they lose range while parked (phantom drain). 300 miles should be the very minimum and 500 miles should be the norm.

No where near as much as EVs do. The biggest consumer of energy in winter is heat, and that's free in ICE cars

And our new 2022 MX LOST range because of the larger motors for the 150+ HP boost no one was asking for in the long range model. (It will probably just chew through front axels faster than the old model) Hopefully the new heat pump makes up for the fact the LR is now rated at 348 EPA miles in 2022 vs 371 in late 2020. (Your Going The Wrong Way to quote Places, Train, and Automobiles)

On the flip side, if winter range is what you're concerned about, the heat pump in the refresh should have a bigger impact than the 20 mile range loss.

 

[Resist]

No where near as much as EVs do. The biggest consumer of energy in winter is heat, and that's free in ICE cars


On the flip side, if winter range is what you're concerned about, the heat pump in the refresh should have a bigger impact than the 20 mile range loss.

Oh of course EV's lose way more range in colder weather than an ICE vehicle does, I don't dispute that. But they do lose range and they also lose range as they age. But I am hopeful with new battery technology an EV's range will greatly increase and all our discussions about range will be a mute point. Better range is what we want but I think if we remember that an EV doesn't waste as much energy as an ICE does and at over $6/gal (in my area), that's important.