Why get a Powerwall?

[jboy210]

What is the reasons one would or would not get a powerwall?

I was one the phone with Tesla and they quoted me a ballpark of:

• $34,000 - panels installed only
• $46,000 - panels + 1 powerwall
• $53,000 - panels + 2 powerwalls

When I asked what the advantages of the powerwall are, the rep list backup power and shifting my usage until the evening. Our power is pretty expensive here in Northern California, 0.24/KW off peak winter (higher in summer). So I guess the powerwall would help there. Also, the net metering is pretty bad at $0.03/KW.

We also drive a Model X and do charge at home, but only drive 5,000 or less miles per year. (Work from Home)

How are others figuring out what makes financial sense?

 

[RoBoRaT]

I would have not opted for Powerwalls without the 30% Income Tax Credit and the SGIP refund ($3K per PW from SGIP Step 4 by Southern California Edison).

Just signed a contract that cost me $19550 for 2 Powerwalls - subtracting the ITC and SGIP net about $3500 per Powerwall.

I suggest watching the webminars from Energy Tool Base to get a sense of how or not Solar plus Battery makes financial sense.


The part at time 21:10 maybe helpful:

Here is another video about Solar with Battery Storage re sizing and system optimization.

The highlights are seen at 5, 13, and 15 minutes

 

[dotbombjoe]

Backup power is the primary reason to get the powerwall. It would simply take too long to recover their cost based on whatever arbitrage you get unless you still have massive subsidies available where you live.

FWIW, the pricing seems pretty outrageous based on what I paid for my two powerwalls...I paid about $12k (installed) for two and got $9k back from CA (SGIP program) and another $1,000 back from the federal tax credit (just on the batteries)...so, about $2k for two powerwalls. I really don't understand the pricing you've been given. I'd get more quotes.

 

[outie]

Backup power is the primary reason to get the powerwall. It would simply take too long to recover their cost based on whatever arbitrage you get unless you still have massive subsidies available where you live.

FWIW, the pricing seems pretty outrageous based on what I paid for my two powerwalls...I paid about $12k (installed) for two and got $9k back from CA (SGIP program) and another $1,000 back from the federal tax credit (just on the batteries)...so, about $2k for two powerwalls. I really don't understand the pricing you've been given. I'd get more quotes.

One PW2 is ~$7k already. 2 would be $14k, excluding labor of ~$1k-3k.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

One PW2 is ~$7k already. 2 would be $14k, excluding labor of ~$1k-3k.

Add the gateway. Sales tax $16.5k just for 3 pieces of hardware. All this at current prices. Add permits and install. I think the Powerwall is a decent deal considering how much solar you are backfeeding. Here I’m assuming they are upgrading your main service panel also. The price difference for the 2nd Powerwall is discounted with free shipping and free sales tax. All in all without incentives Powerwall is only for backup power. Makes zero financial sense unless inconvenience of power outages amounts to thousands of dollars of lost productivity which could be your case especially if home is your main office. Nothing says the internet won’t be down during an outage. Adding solar and using the grid as a virtual bank is most cost effective.

 

[dotbombjoe]

One PW2 is ~$7k already. 2 would be $14k, excluding labor of ~$1k-3k.

Well, I tried to go back and find my documentation because I don't want to be spreading bogus information. I can't locate the quotes from Tesla with any breakdown between my solar and the batteries; however, I did find the document stating the "equipment cost" for the two powerwalls as $12,865. I had complained about pricing and sent over a competitive quote on the solar for a price match so maybe that's why I didn't see any increase re: labor...

Doesn't seem to change my points though...even if I ended up paying $4-5k for the two powerwalls (after incentives) I'd consider that a good deal...but at $19k...not a chance...but everyone has their own reasons/needs. $19k for two powerwalls installed with solar still sounds way too high to me. For $34k you must be putting in a TON of solar btw.

Get quotes from multiple sources and negotiate.

 

[Shygar]

Are they having to do a panel upgrade or something if you get powerwalls? I do think $12k higher for 1 powerwall from Tesla is high. I got my powerwall for $7450 installed with my 7.5kW system ($39k total, before SGIP and ITC).

It can really help shave off your peak usage, especially in the summer if you use AC. I save 20% for backup and the rest for peak usage (so I use $0.25 cost of electricity during my $0.47 cost peak time).

 

[Mickey Mouse]

This could be off topic in this thread but has anyone have recent information about the ITC for powerwall installation going from 30% to 26% on the year 2020?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

This could be off topic in this thread but has anyone have recent information about the ITC for powerwall installation going from 30% to 26% on the year 2020?

That's correct. For residential projects, It's 30% this year, 26% in 2020 and 21% in 2021.

 

[xhaltsalute]

We just had two Powerwalls installed ten days ago (ordered, through our installer who also installed our PV system [13.95 kWp, which cost $37k before applying the federal tax credit], in Sep. 2018). We paid a total of $17.5K for the two which included everything needed (gateway, permits, labor, etc.); our net after the federal tax credit will be $12,250.

We decided on Powerwalls for two reasons: #1 - we want backup power (it's nice to have lights, water (we're on a well), ability to flush toilet, etc. during an outage) and #2, we want to be as self-sufficient as reasonably possible (Powerwalls power our house at night with regeneration from PV system during the day). We considered a whole-house generator but went with the Powerwalls for a variety of reasons, including the fact our area isn't served by natural gas lines - we use a 300 gallon propane tank to fuel our dual-fuel heating system and stovetop.

 

[jboy210]

Finally getting back to this and wondering how the 30% tax credit works. If install a grid tied solar today I can get the credit. It I wait a year and then add storage like a Powerwall can I get another credit? Or is is one time only?

 

[Shygar]

Yes that's my understanding, as long as when the battery is installed it is tied to the solar to only charge from solar, then it qualifies for the 30%. If you install a powerwall first before having solar, you don't get the 30%.

 

[jboy210]

Yes that's my understanding, as long as when the battery is installed it is tied to the solar to only charge from solar, then it qualifies for the 30%. If you install a powerwall first before having solar, you don't get the 30%.

Thanks.

BTW, is that a picture of your setup? If so, it looks outside. If it is outside, do you have a roof or some other protection for the solarwall?

 

[jboy210]

Backup power is the primary reason to get the powerwall. It would simply take too long to recover their cost based on whatever arbitrage you get unless you still have massive subsidies available where you live.

FWIW, the pricing seems pretty outrageous based on what I paid for my two powerwalls...I paid about $12k (installed) for two and got $9k back from CA (SGIP program) and another $1,000 back from the federal tax credit (just on the batteries)...so, about $2k for two powerwalls. I really don't understand the pricing you've been given. I'd get more quotes.

How do you get quotes for powerwalls other than from Tesla? Are there alternative sources?

 

[woferry]

No protection is needed, it's designed to be mounted outdoors as well as indoors. Now temperature extremes can affect it, so in a colder climate it would probably be better if it got sun, in a warmer climate better if it didn't. Mine is mounted on a more north-facing exterior wall, but not because they said that's where it has to go, it was just the most convenient space relative to my utilities and other restrictions (gardens, windows, etc).

Tesla sells Powerwalls to other solar providers as well. If you watch the TV in our area, some company called Semper Solaris(?) claims they have them ready to install. There are battery systems other than Tesla's as well.

 

[GenSao]

How do you get quotes for powerwalls other than from Tesla? Are there alternative sources?

There are a few companies that sell Powerwalls other than Tesla directly. In general, they are more expensive than Tesla directly, but installation with a 3rd party may qualify for the SGIP incentive and offset the difference. As you are in northern California, you are likely in PG&E territory and may make it into Step 4 ($3,480.00 credit/Powerwall).

Below is a very short list of companies to consider:

• Swell Energy
• Semper Solaris
• Clean Solar

 

[Shygar]

Thanks.

BTW, is that a picture of your setup? If so, it looks outside. If it is outside, do you have a roof or some other protection for the solarwall?

Yep my picture is my installation. It is outside. This is my east facing wall. There is no roof over the top. I want it to get sunlight in the morning, especially in the winter. Only "issue" I've had outside is some spiderwebs by the fans at the top. So far it's worked fine in the year and a half I've had it.

 

[Bigtanuki]

What is the reasons one would or would not get a powerwall?

I was one the phone with Tesla and they quoted me a ballpark of:

• $34,000 - panels installed only
• $46,000 - panels + 1 powerwall
• $53,000 - panels + 2 powerwalls

When I asked what the advantages of the powerwall are, the rep list backup power and shifting my usage until the evening. Our power is pretty expensive here in Northern California, 0.24/KW off peak winter (higher in summer). So I guess the powerwall would help there. Also, the net metering is pretty bad at $0.03/KW.

We also drive a Model X and do charge at home, but only drive 5,000 or less miles per year. (Work from Home)

How are others figuring out what makes financial sense?

Here are the reasons that I went with 2 Powerwalls installed about a year after install of a 4.1 kWp solar system. Should eventually get a third PW as a referral prize.

1 - Backup power. We do lose power at least a couple of times a year and brownouts perhaps another 2 or 3 times a year. Powerwalls prevent food spoilage if we're gone, keep internet alive for phone and computers, prevent appliance damage from brownouts. In addition, I'm sure you realize that the PWs will allow your solar to continue to work even on loss of grid which is a big bonus.

2 - Full use of solar generated, if desired. Until Time of Use options became available I routinely made the effort to NOT send back any power to PG&E. However, once the TOU functionality became available and I swapped to the EV-A rates it made much more sense to just use grid power during off-peak times. The advantage is that the NEM offsets are based on the actual TOU rates so offsetting hours during peak times are credited at peak rates. This has allowed me to reduce our power bills considerably. I don't plan on having any excess at true up so I won't have to settle for the .03/kWh that they pay back at.

Long term, PG&E as well as many other utilities in the US will eventually drive everyone to a TOU plan in order to reduce grid load. Not having a method to store and use solar will force users to reduce usage in order to keep their bills reasonable.

One last thing. Based on the traffic on this forum it's pretty obvious that getting PWs tends to make you very aware of your home usage. As an engineer retired from nuclear power, I'm perhaps even more anal about how much power we use. The PWs and app make tracking and manipulating behaviors that much easier.

 

[RFernatt]

I am getting one Powerwall just so I can keep the solar array working during an outage. I would be very upset if I had a solar array shut down on a sunny day during an extended grid outage because I didn't have the Powerwall. Having lived 2 weeks without power in the derecho of 2012 in the middle of a sweltering July, I will have power. And, a window air conditioner. Yes, I had a bad experience...

However, if net metering ever changed away from the full retail rate, I might do more than one.

 

[jboy210]

There are a few companies that sell Powerwalls other than Tesla directly. In general, they are more expensive than Tesla directly, but installation with a 3rd party may qualify for the SGIP incentive and offset the difference. As you are in northern California, you are likely in PG&E territory and may make it into Step 4 ($3,480.00 credit/Powerwall).

Below is a very short list of companies to consider:

• Swell Energy
• Semper Solaris
• Clean Solar

Thanks. Definitely have PG&E (in Pleasanton).


Appreciate the names of some companies. When I google Solar power the local list is about 30 providers long. So I need help coming up with a reasonable size number of providers.