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Why I am losing faith in Tesla’s Autopilot (Autosteer)

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I absolutely love my Model 3. I have had it for just over 3 years now and enjoyed driving every mile of the 42,000 miles that I have clocked till today. Most of the mileage has been on the highway and the remainder was miles that I racked up while commuting for work before the pandemic. When I bought it in 2019, I was primarily using it for the daily 60-mile round trip commute for work during the week. I had started using autopilot right away and loved the fact that I could relax a bit during my daily commute to work. My Model 3 was a replacement for my 2005 Toyota Prius and the difference between the two is significant. This summer, I drove over 8,000 miles across 14 states in my Model 3 - I’m as familiar with it and its autopilot system as anyone else.

Using autopilot for my commute became a ritual and I became very accustomed to it – understanding its weaknesses as well as its strengths. I became so accustomed to it, that whenever I was traveling away from home without my Model 3, I would find it strange to drive any other car, especially on highways. Autopilot allowed me to relax a bit more while driving and take more of a managerial role of the car's systems rather than actively driving it. It helped to reduce my overall fatigue during most drives. This was helpful especially in places like the Bay Area where there is heavy traffic, and you have to constantly be aware of changes in speed and lane changes of vehicles around you.

I experienced the real impact of autopilot when I took my first long road trip with my partner from San Jose to Seattle. This was in early 2020 when work from home had just taken off due to the pandemic and flying to places was out of the question. Several weeks later, we decided to spend some time in Colorado to take advantage of the remote work situation, so we drove to Boulder from Seattle via Yellowstone National Park. As we headed back to San Jose later that year, we had driven over 5,000 miles and had primarily used Tesla’s massive supercharging network. We wouldn’t have been able to do the trip without it. But the real game changer for us was autopilot. I had driven other vehicles with ‘lane-assist’ systems such as those in Toyota and other manufacturers, but nothing came close to Tesla’s autopilot. The ability of the car to stay within the lanes on a highway was impeccable even in times of inclement weather such as heavy rain or snow. We were very impressed with the overall system. There were times when autopilot got confused with lanes or times when we experienced phantom braking – instances when the car would engage the brakes even when there was no need to do so. These were a small fraction of instances and very soon I could predict when I would need to take over from autopilot when there was any complexity in the lane markings. But overall, it was a fantastic system that I found hard to drive without on any road trip or long commute thereafter.

Fast forward to 2022 to a couple of months ago in October. My father flew in from overseas to take a 26-day road trip with me across 7 states starting from California and ending in Wyoming. I was excited to take him in my Model 3 – for him to experience an electric vehicle, seamless supercharging across Tesla’s vast network, and of course autopilot. My dad being a man of precision is not easy to impress and I was eager to know his impression of a Tesla. When he finally decided to take over the wheel from me in Nevada, he was thrilled by the torque and power delivered by the Model 3. I watched him enjoy overtaking slower vehicles as I took videos of him from the passenger seat. I did 90% of the driving of the 3,500+ miles that we covered over 26 days. But I also relied on a key system for half the trip – autopilot. I say half because sometime in late September and early October, I updated the software for the vehicle to the latest version. I initially thought of waiting to complete our trip, but the software update notification popup became annoying, and I finally decided to just complete the update. Later I realized that I had made a big mistake.

On one of our drives, we experienced 4 phantom braking events within 30 minutes. Not only was I embarrassed, but I was also concerned about our safety. A vehicle behind us could have easily slammed into us when our vehicle braked suddenly without any reason to the outside observer. I had to switch off autopilot and drive the vehicle myself. This was such a shame since we could not have been on a straighter road, and it was so monotonous to have to steer as well as press the accelerator pedal. During the remainder of the drive, I kept wondering why this was happening. Was it the road? It had not happened at this frequency for most of our trip so why was this happening now. Then it hit me – it was the most recent software update. Tesla has started transitioning vehicles from its radar + Tesla Vision based autopilot to Tesla Vision only. I felt so silly for choosing to update my vehicle’s software. Even though I knew I had no way of knowing.

This was not the end though. For the remainder of the trip, I experienced multiple phantom braking events. The last straw was when I was driving back home to California from Salt Lake City and experienced such harsh phantom braking that my vehicle dropped in speed by 20 miles per hour within seconds. That was it. I decided to stop using autopilot and stuck to traffic-aware cruise control only. Little did I realize that traffic-aware cruise control is also using Tesla vision. So, I experienced the same exact harsh braking again while just using cruise control! I was so disappointed and so frustrated. I just decided to drive manually altogether. I realized that my 2005 Prius’ (or even my 98 Civic) classic cruise control would have been better than today’s updated version of autopilot.

To state the obvious - In software production, every update should either make a system safer or retain its current level of safety, and then not regress in overall functionality. Unfortunately, I felt less safe with today’s version of autopilot and have decided to not use it until Tesla has addressed this issue thoroughly. It feels very strange to not use autopilot on drives and I definitely feel its absence. The Model 3 has been one of the best purchases I have ever made in my life – I just hope that Tesla will remedy this soon (re-enable radar) and continue to deliver state-of-the-art systems going forward. The competition in the electric vehicle space as well as driver assist systems is about to get fierce.
 
Has to be the version I'm on currently (2022.28.2) which was released September 2022. Since then I'm so scared to update my car software. I'm like - what are they going to f*** up next? I'm so careful now that I wait to view YouTube reviews of all the software updates to see what the implications are. Oh cling on buddy, cling on. I wouldn't update till you know for sure that Tesla is bringing back radar. It's such a shame that Tesla launched OTA in the industry but sends literally crap through it.
 
I'm in Germany, and the issue has been endlessly discussed here in an online forum.

The strange thing is that some drivers, including myself, either don't have the problem or don't perceive it as a problem. Quite a few drivers report that the behavior of the autopilot without radar has not changed or even improved. Others complain about more phantom braking. We have not even conclusively found out whether different cars behave differently even with the same software version. Cleaning the camera lookout area on the windshield has been mentioned.

I personally sense that some phantom braking events do happen, but the car only brakes slightly, then very gently increases speed again. This does not disturb me. I see it as a way for the car to get my attention, to tell me that it has seen something that could be a danger, and to reduce speed a little to prepare for harder braking, if needed.

It is also possible that a few recent software versions had worse phantom braking, but the latest versions are better again. If you don't update, you will perhaps never know.

There are separate discussions about phantom braking in this forum. I suggest to move over and continue the discussion there, if we need to talk about hard braking events.
 
I had bad phantom braking until 2022.36.6. I'm sticking with this one as long as possible. It never phantom brakes ever.

Only thing to look out for is freezing rain or snow and the auto wipers. It continuously turns the windshield into a gummy mess. Impossible to use in freezing conditions with any precipitation.
 
The thing is Tesla implementation of this feature is far far worse than others, like bmw or VW
The worst, almost EVIL part is that tesla decided that is is OK to penalize driver and disable autopilot for rest if drive. THE ONLY car manufacturer who dies that.. utterly stupid
 
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I absolutely love my Model 3. I have had it for just over 3 years now and enjoyed driving every mile of the 42,000 miles that I have clocked till today. Most of the mileage has been on the highway and the remainder was miles that I racked up while commuting for work before the pandemic. When I bought it in 2019, I was primarily using it for the daily 60-mile round trip commute for work during the week. I had started using autopilot right away and loved the fact that I could relax a bit during my daily commute to work. My Model 3 was a replacement for my 2005 Toyota Prius and the difference between the two is significant. This summer, I drove over 8,000 miles across 14 states in my Model 3 - I’m as familiar with it and its autopilot system as anyone else.

Using autopilot for my commute became a ritual and I became very accustomed to it – understanding its weaknesses as well as its strengths. I became so accustomed to it, that whenever I was traveling away from home without my Model 3, I would find it strange to drive any other car, especially on highways. Autopilot allowed me to relax a bit more while driving and take more of a managerial role of the car's systems rather than actively driving it. It helped to reduce my overall fatigue during most drives. This was helpful especially in places like the Bay Area where there is heavy traffic, and you have to constantly be aware of changes in speed and lane changes of vehicles around you.

I experienced the real impact of autopilot when I took my first long road trip with my partner from San Jose to Seattle. This was in early 2020 when work from home had just taken off due to the pandemic and flying to places was out of the question. Several weeks later, we decided to spend some time in Colorado to take advantage of the remote work situation, so we drove to Boulder from Seattle via Yellowstone National Park. As we headed back to San Jose later that year, we had driven over 5,000 miles and had primarily used Tesla’s massive supercharging network. We wouldn’t have been able to do the trip without it. But the real game changer for us was autopilot. I had driven other vehicles with ‘lane-assist’ systems such as those in Toyota and other manufacturers, but nothing came close to Tesla’s autopilot. The ability of the car to stay within the lanes on a highway was impeccable even in times of inclement weather such as heavy rain or snow. We were very impressed with the overall system. There were times when autopilot got confused with lanes or times when we experienced phantom braking – instances when the car would engage the brakes even when there was no need to do so. These were a small fraction of instances and very soon I could predict when I would need to take over from autopilot when there was any complexity in the lane markings. But overall, it was a fantastic system that I found hard to drive without on any road trip or long commute thereafter.

Fast forward to 2022 to a couple of months ago in October. My father flew in from overseas to take a 26-day road trip with me across 7 states starting from California and ending in Wyoming. I was excited to take him in my Model 3 – for him to experience an electric vehicle, seamless supercharging across Tesla’s vast network, and of course autopilot. My dad being a man of precision is not easy to impress and I was eager to know his impression of a Tesla. When he finally decided to take over the wheel from me in Nevada, he was thrilled by the torque and power delivered by the Model 3. I watched him enjoy overtaking slower vehicles as I took videos of him from the passenger seat. I did 90% of the driving of the 3,500+ miles that we covered over 26 days. But I also relied on a key system for half the trip – autopilot. I say half because sometime in late September and early October, I updated the software for the vehicle to the latest version. I initially thought of waiting to complete our trip, but the software update notification popup became annoying, and I finally decided to just complete the update. Later I realized that I had made a big mistake.

On one of our drives, we experienced 4 phantom braking events within 30 minutes. Not only was I embarrassed, but I was also concerned about our safety. A vehicle behind us could have easily slammed into us when our vehicle braked suddenly without any reason to the outside observer. I had to switch off autopilot and drive the vehicle myself. This was such a shame since we could not have been on a straighter road, and it was so monotonous to have to steer as well as press the accelerator pedal. During the remainder of the drive, I kept wondering why this was happening. Was it the road? It had not happened at this frequency for most of our trip so why was this happening now. Then it hit me – it was the most recent software update. Tesla has started transitioning vehicles from its radar + Tesla Vision based autopilot to Tesla Vision only. I felt so silly for choosing to update my vehicle’s software. Even though I knew I had no way of knowing.

This was not the end though. For the remainder of the trip, I experienced multiple phantom braking events. The last straw was when I was driving back home to California from Salt Lake City and experienced such harsh phantom braking that my vehicle dropped in speed by 20 miles per hour within seconds. That was it. I decided to stop using autopilot and stuck to traffic-aware cruise control only. Little did I realize that traffic-aware cruise control is also using Tesla vision. So, I experienced the same exact harsh braking again while just using cruise control! I was so disappointed and so frustrated. I just decided to drive manually altogether. I realized that my 2005 Prius’ (or even my 98 Civic) classic cruise control would have been better than today’s updated version of autopilot.

To state the obvious - In software production, every update should either make a system safer or retain its current level of safety, and then not regress in overall functionality. Unfortunately, I felt less safe with today’s version of autopilot and have decided to not use it until Tesla has addressed this issue thoroughly. It feels very strange to not use autopilot on drives and I definitely feel its absence. The Model 3 has been one of the best purchases I have ever made in my life – I just hope that Tesla will remedy this soon (re-enable radar) and continue to deliver state-of-the-art systems going forward. The competition in the electric vehicle space as well as driver assist systems is about to get fierce.
I agree with your overall assessment. Seems Tesla taking away sensors and features before matching the same or better performance is not the way current customers should be treated. I had 2 Teslas with FSD purchased for over 5-years, still waiting for promised FSD. After 5+years, I decided to sell one Tesla and get another EV from another OEM. I purchased a beautiful luxury sedan, 2023 Genesis Electrified G80 which was much more luxuries than the MS and was $49K cheaper. Genesis provides as standard equipment HDA 2.0 (Highway Driver Assist) which in no way matches Tesla Auto Pilot FSD but it does nothing wrong. I find driving the Genesis on HDA to be without stress and surprises and I like it. My MX 100D was updated to FSD 2022.36.20 on Nov 21st. Have not had a chance to test it yet since I have only been driving the Genesis. Next week I will be taking a trip to Las Vegas in the MX and will test FSD to see if phantom issues still exist. I hope it will be a pleasant trip.
 
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Once again...

Tesla's goal was likely to switch to vision at some point, but the global supply chain and global chip shortage forced their hand earlier than expected. Like most every other car manufacturer, they ran out of USS supply. They had to choose between delaying new car shipments by months, or removing USS before they were ready and push development faster for the vision replacement.

"But I just took delivery, and I don't have USS, and I'm mad about it!!" Ask yourself this question: Would I be willing to wait 6-12 months longer to get my car if it means I'll have USS? My guess is that most people aren't willing to wait that long for a car and would have moved to another solution, costing Tesla lots of money.
 
I've done about 80k miles on AP across 4 Tesla's. I also have simultaneously had a radar and Vision car. I observed a regression even in the vision only car in terms of longitudinal control smoothness from when I first got it to now. I had some work done on my S and it now is stuck on Vision as well. My use of AP has probably reduced 40% since the change, especially since I can now longer set AP at my average travel speed. It's sad, because initially when I got my vision car, it was actually far more competent!

Shipping the vision model backing FSD without it's accompanying object permanence model is a pretty terrible idea. Elon's customer hostile software development philosophy is best summed up by famed Soviet naval captain Marco Ramius

"When he reached the New World, Cortez burned his ships. As a result his men were well motivated."
 
Once again...

Tesla's goal was likely to switch to vision at some point, but the global supply chain and global chip shortage forced their hand earlier than expected. Like most every other car manufacturer, they ran out of USS supply. They had to choose between delaying new car shipments by months, or removing USS before they were ready and push development faster for the vision replacement.

"But I just took delivery, and I don't have USS, and I'm mad about it!!" Ask yourself this question: Would I be willing to wait 6-12 months longer to get my car if it means I'll have USS? My guess is that most people aren't willing to wait that long for a car and would have moved to another solution, costing Tesla lots of money.
Why is Tesla, the only company that has a functional supply chain in the past 2 years, unable to source something that every other OEM is shipping? That's not the reason
 
Why is Tesla, the only company that has a functional supply chain in the past 2 years, unable to source something that every other OEM is shipping? That's not the reason
Also, removing radar and USS support for all the existing Tesla vehicles in which the owner has paid for FSD is inexcusable. As reported in multiple threads on TMC and other sites, changes received so far have not improved existing issues in real world driving. As Tesla lawyers said in court last week, "FSD Auto Pilot's failure is not fraud" hahaha. Disclaimer: I'm a Tesla stock holder and purchased two Tesla with FSD and have been waiting 5+ years for promised FSD. All I have seen in the past year is removing existing hardware and features while increasing prices. I sadly decided to sell one of my Teslas and purchase 2023 Genesis Electrified G80 with HDA 2.0 (includes cameras, USS, and radar) as standard equipment. It may not have all the features of FSD but it does nothing wrong. I love it and the cost was $49K less vs a MS with Auto Pilot. With many EVs now available with all the hardware and new ones coming out next year that add Lidar, we have many options.
 
Also, removing radar and USS support for all the existing Tesla vehicles in which the owner has paid for FSD is inexcusable. As reported in multiple threads on TMC and other sites, changes received so far have not improved existing issues in real world driving. As Tesla lawyers said in court last week, "FSD Auto Pilot's failure is not fraud" hahaha. Disclaimer: I'm a Tesla stock holder and purchased two Tesla with FSD and have been waiting 5+ years for promised FSD. All I have seen in the past year is removing existing hardware and features while increasing prices. I sadly decided to sell one of my Teslas and purchase 2023 Genesis Electrified G80 with HDA 2.0 (includes cameras, USS, and radar) as standard equipment. It may not have all the features of FSD but it does nothing wrong. I love it and the cost was $49K less vs a MS with Auto Pilot. With many EVs now available with all the hardware and new ones coming out next year that add Lidar, we have many options.
Good. You felt burned, and then availed yourself of the free market. That's how it's supposed to work.
 
I'm sorry @needEVWagon , but please do a google search before posting. Here, I'll help:

Not true, just went through 3-months searching for a new luxury EV. I looked at BMW, Mercedes and Genesis existing dealer stock. All had USS and radar on all the EVs I looked at. Genesis included their HDA 2.0 (Highway Driver Assist) as standard equipment. All the 2023 Electrified G80s on the dealer lot had all the equipment. No supply chain issues. needEVWagon is correct. Also Genesis with HDA was $49K less vs MS with Auto Pilot so it seems that cost is not a problem. I'm a Tesla stock holder and even I do not believe the excuses we are getting for deleted hardware and ever increasing prices. Latest EV sales show that Hundai/Kia/Genesis EV sales are increasing rapidly. Also, all new EV models I researched for next year are also including radar/USS at far lower cost models and some are adding Lidar in the $100K range, still lower price vs Tesla MS or MX models with Auto Pilot. Competition is good and I'm open minded enough even as a Tesla stockholder to see what others are offering. We are entering global acceptance of EVs and will have many more options to consider which is a win for consumers.
 
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