Why I believe the Tesla M3 AWD is the only really viable EV

[PITA]

I have a similar system and there is no integration to speak of. The ecosystem is not "managed" by Tesla at all as I have to start and stop charge manually and until the last few weeks I've been unable to manually set the charge current without sitting in the car. I just don't get the benefit at all of "Tesla" being written on 2 of 4 components especially when they're not directly connected using a Tesla wall charger and I suspect from one of your later posts you realized that too.,

Total rubbish. If I want to know whats going on with our Power at home, I go straight to the Tesla App.

Our car is scheduled to charge between 00:30 and 04:30 every night... automatically.

I set the charge limit, and leave it to it...

Our whole setup is pivotal to the Tesla Gateway 2 and Tesla App

 

[PITA]

You have hit the nail on the head with this. You buy a Tesla and you generally just charge and drive for 4 years. You buy a third party BEV and you charge and drive but then comes dealing with the dealerships who see your BEV as destroying their daily business so we get the usual service managers comments (yes we have all been here), sorry sir that's not covered by the warranty, sorry sir can you leave your car for two days it requires a software update, sorry sir we have nobody with the experience to solve this problem or update the software and it just goes on and on. The majority of OEM’s balked at producing BEV’s and deliberately alienated the dealerships against BEV owners which unfortunately still exists today and will do for a number of years to come. Tesla is seen as the enemy by other dealerships who cannot compete with Tesla's sales/warranty model and the old dealerships are so entrenched in their old thieving/closed shop money generating business model that they are now finding that when offered an alternative people will accept a slightly lower expectation in their chosen vehicle rather than keeping the dealership money generating merry go round in business. There are far bigger reasons to buy a Tesla than economy/range and charging infrastructure.

100% bang on...

 

[Jason71]

My expectation? Well that's a novel twist on the clichéd "you're doing it wrong" line, but I don't think my expectation was unrealistic or unreasonable: it was for a properly useable fast saloon. And by useable I expected a decent range. Did I expect the 300 miles then advertised onthe website? No, because, of course, YMMV (or WLTP as it's now pronounced).

Did I, though, think for a moment that the effective range 90%-10% would in ordinary driving be half that? Not for a second.

Was I a fool? Maybe, but I didn't just rely on the website. I devoured every review: not even the What Car real world stats get close to as low as mine (hence my irritation expressed earlier at what I now know to be the nonsense they regurgitate). I took a long test drive, and I was told 300 mile range, and of course the battery meter was set to miles not % - but even so, it's not my first car, I know predicted range will vary with conditions and driving style. Yet I've never had a car where the predicted range is essentially 100% optimistic. (I've sat in my local SC and heard sales staff tell the same lie to successive enquirers... Oddly enough there's no caveat from them in their script. Tesla's model 3 homepage suggests you can go from London to Manchester on one charge in an M3P. At 45mph maybe. I couldnt. Life's too short)

Did I trawl the forums to ground my expectation? - no. But now I know there are plenty on here (mostly in the USA, it's got to be said) who will blindly deny my experience. I assume they drive at 55mph in a constant 23 degrees c for their 240 wh/m. And did I get out drag, speed, energy charts? Hell no, I was buying a fun car not having a detention.

And it's been fun, in many ways. But is it useable, really, for me, without a regular commute but with occasional and unpredictable longer workday drives? Nah.

You are right the sales people gonna sale and Fan Boi's gonna Fan.
But the information is out there. I ordered in 2019 when there were only a handful of M3's in the country and none had been though a British winter but it was the second most expensive thing I ever bought so I did look into it carefully and I could have told you then.
10-90 = -20% range
wet/winter weather = -20% range
cruising at 80 = minus a not an insignificant amount

and at that point you are looking at stops every 150miles on a long journey in winter.
But I was doing 20K miles per year but only 4-3 out of range journeys so for me it was not an issue and the pros hugely outweighed the cons.

That is the reality of EV's at present. The M3 is as good as it gets on that front and the stops themselves are less painful than in anything else out there.
So if the M3 is not for you then EV's as a whole are not ready for you. You would be better off getting a hybrid and coming back in another few years

 

[DrJFoster]

Total rubbish. If I want to know whats going on with our Power at home, I go straight to the Tesla App.

Our car is scheduled to charge between 00:30 and 04:30 every night... automatically.

I set the charge limit, and leave it to it...

Our whole setup is pivotal to the Tesla Gateway 2 and Tesla App

That will certainly maximise the benefits of your solar power array!

I think you should wait until summer before commenting further when your powerwall has filled up and you want your car to then charge taking any excess you produce and you'll understand what we're talking about.

 

[PITA]

That will certainly maximise the benefits of your solar power array!

I think you should wait until summer before commenting further when your powerwall has filled up and you want your car to then charge taking any excess you produce and you'll understand what we're talking about.

I've had my Powerwall Batteries two years now... to provide power to our house, and know how they work.

During September I had cause to charge my car on a couple of days from the Powerwalls during the day, so know how that works.

I know I can transfer Powerwall battery power to the car, and have no Solar exporting to the Grid.

What do you think I'm missing, when I know it all works as I want it to work?

I'm charging the car now overnight because it's Winter... the Solar is being used by the house.

Anyways... you carry on. No matter to me

 

[DrJFoster]

I've had my Powerwall Batteries two years now... to provide power to our house, and know how they work.

During September I had cause to charge my car on a couple of days from the Powerwalls during the day, so know how that works.

I know I can transfer Powerwall battery power to the car, and have no Solar exporting to the Grid.

What do you think I'm missing, when I know it all works as I want it to work?

What you are missing is that its not integrated, you do it manually.

If it was truly integrated like the virtue you claimed the car and powerwall would work together, automatically, without intervention. Charging your car from your powerwall is inefficient compared to charging directly from your solar. You could swap out your Tesla car for a BMW i4 and you could do EXACTLY what you're currently doing.

I'm out of this conversation, you'll just childishly dislike the post and and it's getting off topic the original topic.

 

[candida]

You would be better off getting a hybrid and coming back in another few years

Yep, that's pretty much the conclusion I'd come to because apart from the instant acceleration, the one thing I absolutely love is sitting in traffic and not belching out fumes.

Sorry, I mean the CAR isn't belching out fumes.

 

[PITA]

What you are missing is that its not integrated, you do it manually.

If it was truly integrated like the virtue you claimed the car and powerwall would work together, automatically, without intervention. Charging your car from your powerwall is inefficient compared to charging directly from your solar. You could swap out your Tesla car for a BMW i4 and you could do EXACTLY what you're currently doing.

I'm out of this conversation, you'll just childishly dislike the post and and it's getting off topic the original topic.

I'm disagreeing with your comments because you're talking rubbish.

If I had a BMW I4 M50 parked outside ... I could not go into the Tesla App and start car charging.

I could not go into my Tesla App and set a car charging schedule.

I could not go into my Tesla App and remote manage my car.

If I had a BMW App, I could not see visability of my Tesla Powerwalls.

I could not go into my BMW App and see solar activity, home activity, power availability... nothing...

That's not the same... it's completely detached.

What exactly do you want the Powerwall battery and car to do automatically??

 

[kael13]

I drove IONIQ 5. Huge, cheap inside, sluggish UI, too many buttons and slow (relatively). Had glitchy auto steering. Not as much boot space as you’d think. Trunk is comical. It’s a competent EV but no match for a Tesla. So I bought a M3LR.

Amen. The ioniq 5 is not a better built car. At all.

 

[Masklin]

You are right the sales people gonna sale and Fan Boi's gonna Fan.
But the information is out there. I ordered in 2019 when there were only a handful of M3's in the country and none had been though a British winter but it was the second most expensive thing I ever bought so I did look into it carefully and I could have told you then.
10-90 = -20% range
wet/winter weather = -20% range
cruising at 80 = minus a not an insignificant amount

and at that point you are looking at stops every 150miles on a long journey in winter.
But I was doing 20K miles per year but only 4-3 out of range journeys so for me it was not an issue and the pros hugely outweighed the cons.

That is the reality of EV's at present. The M3 is as good as it gets on that front and the stops themselves are less painful than in anything else out there.
So if the M3 is not for you then EV's as a whole are not ready for you. You would be better off getting a hybrid and coming back in another few years

Range... summer or winter, in just over eighteen months of ownership now, I've yet to do a drive where the battery ran out before my bladder. That's reality, for me at least, and how I plan my trips!

 

[Peter 224]

You have hit the nail on the head with this. You buy a Tesla and you generally just charge and drive for 4 years. You buy a third party BEV and you charge and drive but then comes dealing with the dealerships who see your BEV as destroying their daily business so we get the usual service managers comments (yes we have all been here), sorry sir that's not covered by the warranty, sorry sir can you leave your car for two days it requires a software update, sorry sir we have nobody with the experience to solve this problem or update the software and it just goes on and on. The majority of OEM’s balked at producing BEV’s and deliberately alienated the dealerships against BEV owners which unfortunately still exists today and will do for a number of years to come. Tesla is seen as the enemy by other dealerships who cannot compete with Tesla's sales/warranty model and the old dealerships are so entrenched in their old thieving/closed shop money generating business model that they are now finding that when offered an alternative people will accept a slightly lower expectation in their chosen vehicle rather than keeping the dealership money generating merry go round in business. There are far bigger reasons to buy a Tesla than economy/range and charging infrastructure.

OP here...I agree 100%.
It isn't just the company and the cars, it is the disruptive approach they have had on a business that is essentially unchanged since the 1920s. Buying cars from a main dealer is a pain, dealing with service department is just as painful.
I enjoyed the Tesla buying process, the service department are easy to deal with, even if parts supply is not good enough.

Hence my original assertion, a Tesla M3 AWD is the only truly viable EV for most people.
BUT, as has been said, EVs are not yet for everyone because the charging infrastructure isn't good enough and the cars are too expensive. to buy.

 

[Sparkeur]

I've had more comfortable and more imposing cars but the Model 3 has understated style and the discreet performance of a supercar. I wouldn't change mine for the world. It also, I was surprised to learn, has street-cred. The agent, through whom we bought our property in Spain, said his 15 year old daughter was very surprised when he told her his client had a Tesla. I said that next time we're down, they're both welcome to come for a drive. 'Oh no, not necessary', he said 'She's just impressed I know someone who owns a Tesla'.

 

[Jason71]

I've had more comfortable and more imposing cars but the Model 3 has understated style and the discreet performance of a supercar. I wouldn't change mine for the world. It also, I was surprised to learn, has street-cred. The agent, through whom we bought our property in Spain, said his 15 year old daughter was very surprised when he told her his client had a Tesla. I said that next time we're down, they're both welcome to come for a drive. 'Oh no, not necessary', he said 'She's just impressed I know someone who owns a Tesla'.

I was the only green in the village for a while in 2019 when I got mine and the local kids treated me ( or it) like I was a rock star. pointed and waved every time I passed. It was crazy.
Last week I passed 3 M3's on a 2 mile drive to the Supermarket.
So I think its safe to say we are done with that now.

 

[Js1977]

I was the only green in the village for a while in 2019 when I got mine and the local kids treated me ( or it) like I was a rock star. pointed and waved every time I passed. It was crazy.
Last week I passed 3 M3's on a 2 mile drive to the Supermarket.
So I think its safe to say we are done with that now.

Well, We are still the only ones in our village to have them. A couple of OAP's (impressed me the most) recently passed by and as I was washing the cars I overheard "oh, they've got two!" and the kids just ask what job have I got. Hopefully, I will have sold one by the time the third comes along next year .

In time these will become the norm but my bike still gathers a crowd and many a compliments 8 years on like they never seen one like it before

 

[AMP_it_up]

My experience of my 2019 M3P this week has reinforced why it's so good for long journeys even in winter. I had been staying overnight near Manchester in the Worsley Park Hotel and had to drive home to just south of Oxford (171 miles) leaving the hotel at 5 pm. I was not particularly looking forward to the drive in rush hour, in the dark and in light rain. I just wanted to get home safely and quickly.

I charged the battery up to 93% for free on the hotel 7 KW charger during the afternoon, also pre-heating the car just before departure. I could monitor the charging and control the pre-heating from the Tesla App whilst participating in my business meeting. On setting the satnav it was predicting I would get home with 10% charge, which seemed low to me, and the journey would take 3 hours without bladder stops, which seemed optimistic with rush hour traffic. Anyway I set off and once on to the M62 selected navigate on autopilot and a max speed to 70 mph. The car drove itself and took all the stress out of the journey especially when the traffic was slow. Monitoring my progress the car was now predicting I would get home with 19% battery charge - pretty good I thought. By the time I got onto the M40 the traffic was light and as I had plenty of juice left and I was keen to get home I raised my cruise control speed. After a bladder stop at Warwick Services and a little bit of right pedal fun nearer home I got home with 12% battery at 8 pm, exactly as predicted at the start of my journey. I also enjoyed the journey and got home feeling less stressed than before I started!

 

[candida]

My experience of my 2019 M3P this week has reinforced why it's so good for long journeys even in winter. I had been staying overnight near Manchester in the Worsley Park Hotel and had to drive home to just south of Oxford (171 miles) leaving the hotel at 5 pm. I was not particularly looking forward to the drive in rush hour, in the dark and in light rain. I just wanted to get home safely and quickly.

I charged the battery up to 93% for free on the hotel 7 KW charger during the afternoon, also pre-heating the car just before departure. I could monitor the charging and control the pre-heating from the Tesla App whilst participating in my business meeting. On setting the satnav it was predicting I would get home with 10% charge, which seemed low to me, and the journey would take 3 hours without bladder stops, which seemed optimistic with rush hour traffic. Anyway I set off and once on to the M62 selected navigate on autopilot and a max speed to 70 mph. The car drove itself and took all the stress out of the journey especially when the traffic was slow. Monitoring my progress the car was now predicting I would get home with 19% battery charge - pretty good I thought. By the time I got onto the M40 the traffic was light and as I had plenty of juice left and I was keen to get home I raised my cruise control speed. After a bladder stop at Warwick Services and a little bit of right pedal fun nearer home I got home with 12% battery at 8 pm, exactly as predicted at the start of my journey. I also enjoyed the journey and got home feeling less stressed than before I started!

This makes me think mine has a hole in the tank and is leaking electrons

 

[AMP_it_up]

This makes me think mine has a hole in the tank and is leaking electrons

I should have also said the ambient temperature for my trip was 5 C, just to rub it in!

 

[Peter 224]

we know the SR, LR and P batteries are not the same, but the way the LR and P batteries perform in the cold does seem to suggest a real difference in range delivery.

 

[Jason71]

This makes me think mine has a hole in the tank and is leaking electrons

No but it probably has one in the floor under the accelerator
Note he said his cruse was set at 70 and in rush hour probably averaged a lot less most of the time. You described a journey actually cruising at 80.
ICE are 20% to 35% efficient which masks the losses from speed, weather and towing etc. EVs are 90+% efficient so these things have a huge impact and can't be ignored. The fact that you don't seem to apreciate that means you are still thinking like an Ice owner. If you want to be happy you need to change your mind set. Change your car or get cryo frozen for a few years.

 

[AMP_it_up]

No but it probably has one in the floor under the accelerator
Note he said his cruse was set at 70 and in rush hour probably averaged a lot less most of the time. You described a journey actually cruising at 80.
ICE are 20% to 35% efficient which masks the losses from speed, weather and towing etc. EVs are 90+% efficient so these things have a huge impact and can't be ignored. The fact that you don't seem to apreciate that means you are still thinking like an Ice owner. If you want to be happy you need to change your mind set. Change your car or get cryo frozen for a few years.

My average speed was 62 mph actual which is probably the equivalent of at least 65 mph indicated, but ranged between <20 mph and *** mph, neither of which give good efficiency.