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Why I believe the Tesla M3 AWD is the only really viable EV

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I took a look at the BMW i4 M50... 317 WTLP range = about 230 in the real world, based on my Tesla experience.
Similar bhp to the M3, similar performance, larger battery, so why so much less range? What is the difference that make it possible for Tesla to achieve a WLTP range of 360 miles or 13% more?
 
I took a look at the BMW i4 M50... 317 WTLP range = about 230 in the real world, based on my Tesla experience.
Similar bhp to the M3, similar performance, larger battery, so why so much less range? What is the difference that make it possible for Tesla to achieve a WLTP range of 360 miles or 13% more?
I don't think there is one thing I think it is a series of l things.
Guessing the M3 has a lower drag. TBH it probably has lower drag than just the BMW badge without the rest of the car attached.
I would also bet the M3 is lighter due to its smaller battery and maybe more use of aluminium. certainly than the Standard I4 not sure if the M50 has some aluminium body panels.
Tesla may also have been able to optimise some stuff based on being a ground up EV not a repurposed ICE chassis.
And then there is Drive unit hardware and BMS software. Tesla has been making High performance EV's for longer than anyone so maybe they have an advantage there as well. Hard to know.
Guessing the M50 will be a better drivers car though. BMW certainly have their own strengths.

Having said all that the I4 is the only car other than the M3 so far to be awarded the new A++ energy efficiency rating so they must be doing something right.
 
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I don't think there is one thing I think it is a series of l things.
Guessing the M3 has a lower drag. TBH it probably has lower drag than just the BMW badge without the rest of the car attached.
I would also bet the M3 is lighter due to its smaller battery and maybe more use of aluminium. certainly than the Standard I4 not sure if the M50 has some aluminium body panels.
Tesla may also have been able to optimise some stuff based on being a ground up EV not a repurposed ICE chassis.
And then there is Drive unit hardware and BMS software. Tesla has been making High performance EV's for longer than anyone so maybe they have an advantage there as well. Hard to know.
Guessing the M50 will be a better drivers car though. BMW certainly have their own strengths.

Having said all that the I4 is the only car other than the M3 so far to be awarded the new A++ energy efficiency rating so they must be doing something right.

I agree, the strength of Tesla is the sum of its parts plus company knowledge.

I will try one, but I don't think I could bring myself to look at the monster BMW badge every morning!
I've owned 2 BMWs, neither lasted more than 2 years before I cried "enough".

The Polestar 2 looks interesting....
 
Polestar 2, kia ev6, ioniq 5. All of them more 'desirable' than a model 3. all with better build quality and refinement.

They just don't have the charging networks yet, which is the one thing tesla have going for it.

The only reason i've got a model 3 on order and not one of the above is the charging network.
Stating as fact that these two are more 'desirable' than an M3 ( whether in quotes or not) makes about as much sense as the OPs original statement that the "Tesla M3 AWD is the only really viable EV". Desirability is subjective and viability it circumstantial.
M3 is not very 'viable' if you want to carry big things or have a dog but its pretty desirable if you want to do a lot of long journeys.
Maybe you can at least find common ground and bond over your mutual distaste for the SR+ :rolleyes:
 
Polestar 2, kia ev6, ioniq 5. All of them more 'desirable' than a model 3. all with better build quality and refinement.

They just don't have the charging networks yet, which is the one thing tesla have going for it.

The only reason i've got a model 3 on order and not one of the above is the charging network.
I order my Model 3 SR after test driving Polestar 2 and Kia EV6

I like interior of Polestar 2 the most, but found it rather cramp inside, and the driving dynamic is very typical volvo.

EV6 drive better than Polestar 2, the basic version is quite basic

Model 3 tick most of the box for me, better performance (I drive a lot country road with slow lorries and farming tractors), most engaging to drive, better equipped (Pan roof, heated steering, heated seat, electric seats with memories etc).

Polestar 2 and EV6 certainly have their strength but I think it is not a model 3/model y killer but giving more choice for EV in those price range\
 
Stating as fact that these two are more 'desirable' than an M3 ( whether in quotes or not) makes about as much sense as the OPs original statement that the "Tesla M3 AWD is the only really viable EV". Desirability is subjective and viability it circumstantial.
M3 is not very 'viable' if you want to carry big things or have a dog but its pretty desirable if you want to do a lot of long journeys.
Maybe you can at least find common ground and bond over your mutual distaste for the SR+ :rolleyes:

Fair points. What I mean, there's nothing premium about any Tesla, except the price and charging network.

Fair point about the Short range version. like putting tits on a fish 😜
 
And yet the SR+, despite having less overall range in one charge, is more efficient, so you get more miles per kw.

I guess “viable” is all just as subjective as everything else on here.

When more and more chargers start appearing everywhere, but the energy prices skyrocket, it will be less about what range you have, but how efficient it is. Much like the world of ICE cars. History repeats…..
 
What was your expectation?
None of the range estimates you will see are based on doing 80mpg in during the winter in the UK.
You will use 30% more Energy at 80mph than you will at 70mph.
Elon Musk might have a massive god complex but he has not managed to change the laws of physics yet
My expectation? Well that's a novel twist on the clichéd "you're doing it wrong" line, but I don't think my expectation was unrealistic or unreasonable: it was for a properly useable fast saloon. And by useable I expected a decent range. Did I expect the 300 miles then advertised onthe website? No, because, of course, YMMV (or WLTP as it's now pronounced).

Did I, though, think for a moment that the effective range 90%-10% would in ordinary driving be half that? Not for a second.

Was I a fool? Maybe, but I didn't just rely on the website. I devoured every review: not even the What Car real world stats get close to as low as mine (hence my irritation expressed earlier at what I now know to be the nonsense they regurgitate). I took a long test drive, and I was told 300 mile range, and of course the battery meter was set to miles not % - but even so, it's not my first car, I know predicted range will vary with conditions and driving style. Yet I've never had a car where the predicted range is essentially 100% optimistic. (I've sat in my local SC and heard sales staff tell the same lie to successive enquirers... Oddly enough there's no caveat from them in their script. Tesla's model 3 homepage suggests you can go from London to Manchester on one charge in an M3P. At 45mph maybe. I couldnt. Life's too short)

Did I trawl the forums to ground my expectation? - no. But now I know there are plenty on here (mostly in the USA, it's got to be said) who will blindly deny my experience. I assume they drive at 55mph in a constant 23 degrees c for their 240 wh/m. And did I get out drag, speed, energy charts? Hell no, I was buying a fun car not having a detention.

And it's been fun, in many ways. But is it useable, really, for me, without a regular commute but with occasional and unpredictable longer workday drives? Nah.
 
I took a look at the BMW i4 M50... 317 WTLP range = about 230 in the real world, based on my Tesla experience.
Similar bhp to the M3, similar performance, larger battery, so why so much less range? What is the difference that make it possible for Tesla to achieve a WLTP range of 360 miles or 13% more?
We’re yet to see real world figures. The Taycan for instance out performs its rating and either way we all know the rating system is rubbish.

But would you really care about a little less efficiency if it still has a range that gives you enough and the car gives you so much more than the Tesla in terms of everyday useable driving tech like hud, surround view, CarPlay, adaptive suspension, working speed limits at all speeds, etc) plus quieter and better seats? If the i4 is as good as the early reviews suggest and they can make them in sufficient numbers I can see a lot of people including existing Tesla owners heading that way.

Model S owners have started to drift to the taycan and Audi etron GT.

Choice is good, they are not the only show in town now Tesla may need to invest some of their money in fixing some of their weaknesses as a result which is good for everyone
 
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My experience of Tesla so far is very good. In fact, I'm loving it.

Something not often mentioned is the Tesla eco-system.

At home we have a Solar Panel Array, Tesla Powerwall batteries, Tesla Gateway 2, Home Fast Charger (8kW), smart meters, low cost tariff and a Tesla Model 3 Performance... plus my '67 reg Insignia Grand Sport 1.5 litre Petrol Turbo.

All my family, friends, and regular places of interest are all within a 100 miles radius from where I live. So I can charge up overnight and go enjoy a fun drive knowing I've got at least 200 miles to play with. More than enough for me.

The Tesla Eco-System bolted to our home means I can charge the car in Summer for no cost, store power and charge the car even during a Grid Blackout. Power the house at cheap rate electric, or no cost solar, for use during day and nightime.

All the systems are automated, and charging the car at home is easier than visiting a petrol station, by a long way.

Our Model 3 Performance is perfect because it's built in the new Shanghai Gigafactory and of good quality, it's always perfect temperature when I get in it, it's surefooted and fast, over-the-air updates make it interesting & fresh, no range anxiety in any weather or temperatures, no servicing schedules to worry about, and the whole experience is a sense of the future.

I looked at other EV Cars, especially the BMW I4 M50 and the Devil is always in the details....

BMW don't offer any 'home eco-system' ... they're just not with the concept... and I really feel it's just a car manufacturer trying to dress up a botched attempt to stay in the game... a game they appear to not want to play in the first place.
 
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You don’t need all one make to get things to work together, I doubt your solar panels were from Tesla. The Tesla charger is the dumbest (meant in a literal way) on the market. Take an example, does your setup adapt the current your car is charging at in summer to the output of your solar panels less any household demand, and stop charging if necessary? I don’t have solar but I understand from others that it’s not been possible, although 3rd parties have tried to work around the limitations.
 
... just to add,

You could say that our Tesla eco-system at home is universal and I could charge any EV Car on it. Which is true.

But then why would I buy a BMW I4 M50 when it costs more, is heavier, is slower, is less efficient, has less public chargers, is tied into BMW warranty & service setup, and has less 'vision' than the Tesla company.

I also own a 'new from them' BMW R1200GSA motorcycle and know exactly how BMW operate... and to be honest, I'm fed up with the whole warranty/servicing/mechanical/merry-go-round.

Tesla is a breath of fresh air to me.
 
You don’t need all one make to get things to work together, I doubt your solar panels were from Tesla. The Tesla charger is the dumbest (meant in a literal way) on the market. Take an example, does your setup adapt the current your car is charging at in summer to the output of your solar panels less any household demand, and stop charging if necessary? I don’t have solar but I understand from others that it’s not been possible, although 3rd parties have tried to work around the limitations.

No idea what you're on about... as I only got the car in September so have only experienced a couple months usage.

But from my experience so far our solar generation feeds the house, excess power goes to the Tesla Powerwall batteries. The batteries then feed excess demand to wherever it's needed to stay off peak.

If the batteries are getting full, and Solar is still active (and water tank is hot), I plug in the car and let the EV Charger (MyEnergi Zappy) charge at full power to transfer excess solar. Using the battery power & Solar mixed together to allow full charge speed.

As the batteries drain, the solar tops them back up... until the car is charged to whatever level charge you wanted.

In Winter, I just schedule charge the car (and Powerwall batteries) at night on cheap rate tariff.

How I've done it so far... with no issues.

As we move towards Spring next year, I'll transition to Summer by splitting how we use the Solar & Battery power.

So letting Solar power the house and battery storage, and Grid overnight to charge the car... keep it seperate until the peak of Summer excess power starts.

In my opinion, it's a very nice setup, not offered by any other car manufacturer...
 
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What is the difference that make it possible for Tesla to achieve a WLTP range of 360 miles or 13% more?
I think the main difference is weight, with some contribution from drag coefficient and frontal area:

Unladen weight (kg)CDFront area (m2)CD*FA
Model 3 SR+
1850​
0.23​
2.67​
0.61​
Model 3 LR
1919​
0.23​
2.67​
0.61​
BMW i4 M50
2290​
0.25​
2.68​
0.67​
 
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No idea what you're on about... as I only got the car in September so have only experienced a couple months usage.

But from my experience so far our solar generation feeds the house, excess power goes to the Tesla Powerwall batteries. The batteries then feed excess demand to wherever it's needed to stay off peak.

If the batteries are getting full, and Solar is still active (and water tank is hot), I plug in the car and let the EV Charger (MyEnergi Zappy) charge at full power to transfer excess solar. Using the battery power & Solar mixed together to allow full charge speed.

As the batteries drain, the solar tops them back up... until the car is charged to whatever level charge you wanted.

In Winter, I just schedule charge the car (and Powerwall batteries) at night on cheap rate tariff.

How I've done it so far... with no issues.
That’s exactly my point, you sing the virtues of an all Tesla setup, you’re critical of BMW for not having one, then confess you use a 3rd party app as there is no integration at all between the components.
 
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That’s exactly my point, you sing the virtues of an all Tesla setup, you’re critical of BMW for not having one, then confess you use a 3rd party app as there is no integration at all between the components.

What are you going on about?

I use the Tesla App for everything.

Tesla App controls my Peak / Off-Peak Grid Powerwall Cost Charging, my backup settings, storm watch & report statistics.

Tesla App controls my Car Charging Schedule, Manual Charging, Charging limits, Amp settings & notifications.

Tesla App monitors Solar Activity, Powerwall Activity, Car Charging Activity, House Demand Activity, Grid status.

Tesla App enables me to remote manage my car.

Tesla Gateway 2 controls where the Power is routed and where from, and automatically islands us from the Grid during Power outages. Reporting all info back to the Tesla App.

I don't need to use any other app, for anything... it's all managed by Tesla.

I just plug the cable into the charger, and run it all from the Tesla App.
 
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What are you going on about?

I use the Tesla App for everything.

Tesla App controls my Peak / Off-Peak Grid Powerwall Charging

Tesla App controls my Car Charging Schedule, Manual Charging & amp settings

Tesla App monitors Solar Activity, Powerwall Activity, Car Charging Activity, House Demand

Tesla Gateway 2 controls where the Power is routed and where from, and automatically islands us from the Grid during Power outages.

I don't need to use any other app, for anything... it's all managed by Tesla

I just plug the cable into the charger, and run it all from the Tesla App.
I have a similar system and there is no integration to speak of. The ecosystem is not "managed" by Tesla at all as I have to start and stop charge manually and until the last few weeks I've been unable to manually set the charge current without sitting in the car. I just don't get the benefit at all of "Tesla" being written on 2 of 4 components especially when they're not directly connected using a Tesla wall charger and I suspect from one of your later posts you realized that too.,
 
... just to add,

You could say that our Tesla eco-system at home is universal and I could charge any EV Car on it. Which is true.

But then why would I buy a BMW I4 M50 when it costs more, is heavier, is slower, is less efficient, has less public chargers, is tied into BMW warranty & service setup, and has less 'vision' than the Tesla company.

I also own a 'new from them' BMW R1200GSA motorcycle and know exactly how BMW operate... and to be honest, I'm fed up with the whole warranty/servicing/mechanical/merry-go-round.

Tesla is a breath of fresh air to me.
You have hit the nail on the head with this. You buy a Tesla and you generally just charge and drive for 4 years. You buy a third party BEV and you charge and drive but then comes dealing with the dealerships who see your BEV as destroying their daily business so we get the usual service managers comments (yes we have all been here), sorry sir that's not covered by the warranty, sorry sir can you leave your car for two days it requires a software update, sorry sir we have nobody with the experience to solve this problem or update the software and it just goes on and on. The majority of OEM’s balked at producing BEV’s and deliberately alienated the dealerships against BEV owners which unfortunately still exists today and will do for a number of years to come. Tesla is seen as the enemy by other dealerships who cannot compete with Tesla's sales/warranty model and the old dealerships are so entrenched in their old thieving/closed shop money generating business model that they are now finding that when offered an alternative people will accept a slightly lower expectation in their chosen vehicle rather than keeping the dealership money generating merry go round in business. There are far bigger reasons to buy a Tesla than economy/range and charging infrastructure.
 
OP, I think it would be too much of a stretch to say its the only viable EV, there are plenty of owners of other makes enjoying their cars, BMW i3 owners have for many years. What is fair is that most of us on a Tesla forum feel the Tesla is the best mix of good and bad for them, because it's not all good,

I look forward to when I come to change because there is increasing amounts of choice, and while I may end up in another Tesla, I would much prefer it to be because I wanted it and not because it was the best of a compromised bunch..
 
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