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I'm not sure what $4K you're referring to. My 2nd charger was $1500, when I ordered it with my MS. I know they are more expensive if you add them, since there's parts and labor, but haven't heard of a $4000 cost.
Scotty
I guess you ordered when dual chargers was still a factory option, but that's no longer the case. Now you can get a second charger installed after delivery for $2,000, and that's the only way to get it. And given that the CHAdeMO adapter is $450, that might be the better option for a lot of people.
mikeash
Active Member
Yes, now there's no reason to get dual chargers until you can be certain that they'll be useful to you. There's no savings if you buy them early anymore, since you can't order them with the car.
My approach to both dual chargers and CHAdeMO has been to wait and only get them when I see a need. So far no need for either. I think most people overestimate the need to charge at 80A when out traveling, although obviously there are some people who wander extensively around the supercharger deserts and really do benefit, or really do need faster charging at home.
mkspeedr
Member
Dual chargers are totally worth it if you have 80 amp chargers to support them and you drive a lot. I drive a lot - I have an 80 amp at work, home and my parents (they have a P85D). That triangle covers me no matter how much I drive in one day. If you don't drive a lot in one day - I don't see the need for the second charger.
On our recent roadtrip our hotel only has 120V charging (which we were very thankful for). But there was a hotel/restaurant a few miles away with an 80A HPWC and a 60A regular EV charger. This was the first time where I thought to myself that it would have been nice to have dual chargers...
2k for the charger.
1.5k extra (apprx) for higher installation costs of home charging equipment.
$500 for life long therapy sessions living with the bitter reality that donkey kong was right.
deonb
Active Member
Even if you drive a lot - I see you're in Santa Clara. I count 19 Chademo stations and 1 Supercharger within a 10 mile radius...
Khatsalano
Member
First, a reveal piece of news from TMC Connect 2015: A supercharger is simply a 12-stack of the onboard charger (12x10kW = 120kW). Tesla builds a lot of their things in the modular plug-and-play fashion.
Second, I also have duals in my car. I've used this capability about 12 times in the last 15,000 miles. It's nice to have, but if asked a different question: How many times have you required dual chargers, without which, my travel mission could not be accomplished without delay or accomplished at all? The answer is zero. I originally bought that feature, anticipating that there are times where I could get home from Napa Valley or Sacramento, be low on charge, then have to drive out again for dinner in Silicon Valley. Yea, duals would have been nice to get 60 miles while I showered up and changed, but now, there are SCs in San Mateo and Mountain View! With the current rate of SC growth, duals won't be necessary.
But hey, it's still cool to have them.
If I were to buy the car all over again, I would not have spent the money (or the weight) on duals ... I would rather have spent it on an after-market dash cam system or an extended Tesla warranty or a second set of 19" wheels for winter use (I have 21"s).
- K
Second, I also have duals in my car. I've used this capability about 12 times in the last 15,000 miles. It's nice to have, but if asked a different question: How many times have you required dual chargers, without which, my travel mission could not be accomplished without delay or accomplished at all? The answer is zero. I originally bought that feature, anticipating that there are times where I could get home from Napa Valley or Sacramento, be low on charge, then have to drive out again for dinner in Silicon Valley. Yea, duals would have been nice to get 60 miles while I showered up and changed, but now, there are SCs in San Mateo and Mountain View! With the current rate of SC growth, duals won't be necessary.
But hey, it's still cool to have them.
If I were to buy the car all over again, I would not have spent the money (or the weight) on duals ... I would rather have spent it on an after-market dash cam system or an extended Tesla warranty or a second set of 19" wheels for winter use (I have 21"s).- K
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I would argue that home charging at 80A (or work-charging, or parent-charging) is more convenient than stopping at a Supercharger or Chademo and killing time there. Slower at the 80A chargers, but they are places you're visiting anyway.
mkspeedr
Member
Santa Clara and north of Santa Clara is awesome. Chargers are easy to find - no problem. I don't like waiting somewhere for my car to charge. South San Jose has a more limited selection (most have restricted access). My relatives - kids school - garage are all in South San Jose. Having the charger at places I stop for 1-2 hours eliminates my need to ever use a public charger. So for me it is totally worth it.
Let’s clear up that math there:
$2K for the charger
$0 for not usually needing to go for a more expensive install and a 100A breaker, etc. etc., because at home, you can charge up all night while you sleep. The usefulness of the dual charger is mainly when you are on a non-Supercharged route, and you do need to fill in a gap with an hour or two from a place that has a higher powered HPWC or J1772.
$0 for showing donkeykong’s suggestion doesn’t really make sense; I offer this service for free.
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Interesting. So are you saying that on the S85D to charge to the same level as the S70D, it is faster? I wonder why.
There not too many 80a chargers in Southern California. At least I haven't come across them. Most of them are like 32a or less.
There not too many 80a chargers in Southern California. At least I haven't come across them. Most of them are like 32a or less.
It is the opposite. Jerry33 is right. Larger battery supercharges faster. This has to do with the fact that supercharging slows down at higher percentages (known as tapering curve). In the table below you can see that 200 rated miles equals to 96.15% in 60 kWh battery but only 69.93% in 90 kWh battery. With larger batteries you don't need to supercharge to high percentages to acquire the same rated miles. Therefore it is faster. Here is a comparison between 60,70,85 and 90 kWh batteries supercharging from 30 to 200 rated miles:
The data is from this spreadsheet: Tesla Supercharge Time Calculator - Google Sheets
Model S 60
Model S 70D
Model S 85D
Model S 90D
max 208 miles EPA rated range
max 240 miles EPA rated range max 270 miles EPA rated range max 286 miles EPA rated range Step 4: Supercharge From Step 4: Supercharge From Step 4: Supercharge From Step 4: Supercharge From 30
30 30 30 charge level 14.42% charge level 12.50% charge level 11.11% charge level 10.49% charge time to this percentage charge time to this percentage charge time to this percentage charge time to this percentage 06 min 36 sec 05 min 48 sec 05 min 12 sec 04 min 54 sec Step 5: Supercharge To Step 5: Supercharge To Step 5: Supercharge To Step 5: Supercharge To Enter miles (max 208) Enter miles (max 240) Enter miles (max 270) Enter miles (max 286) 200
200 200 200
charge level 96.15% charge level 83.33% charge level 74.07% charge level 69.93% charge time to this percentage charge time to this percentage charge time to this percentage charge time to this percentage 1 hour 19 min 06 sec 56 min 36 sec 46 min 18 sec 42 min 18 sec 1 hour 12 min 30 sec
50 min 48 sec 41 min 06 sec 37 min 24 sec
However, dual chargers is still a good idea because of the destination charging program. Not all destination chargers are at hotels where you stay overnight.
To be precise, the S85D supercharges faster to the same rated miles. They both supercharge to same percentage in same time. But obviously charging to a lower percentage takes less time. I have now added a new row that shows what charge percentage is added. Link is in my signature.
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