Why I recommend AGAINST buying a Tesla

[xasroma]

I own a 2008 M5, the second most unreliable M model. (06-07 was worse)
108k miles and still going.
But I agree, normally I don’t keep my cars longer than the warranty. However the model s is not exactly cheap to repair out of warranty. Granted there are less parts to break down but the stuff that does break down is not cheap.

I owned a 2007 M6. That V10 sounded gorgeous. I had issues with SMG (sequential manual gearbox) I used to get 8 mpg in the city. I was every 3 days in the gas station - my second home. Now I only see gas stations as a fast way to buy milk. Lol.

 

[Fredneck]

OP here.

The 90kw battery has silicon in the chemistry to increase the power density over the 85kw, for the person who was asking. Unfortunately this had the apparently unforeseen consequence of the battery degrading faster than the non-silicone versions.
OK, this caught Tesla by surprise. I can't (and don't) fault them for discovering it after many of us bought those batteries.

I do. It's not like they don't do any testing on batteries before bringing them to market. I think this is more along the lines of a screw up than an honest mistake. They test the crap out of each new chemistry before they even think about putting it in a car, precisely to prevent problems like this. So what went wrong?

What I can (and DO) fault them for is not being up front about it when they did discover the problem. They sent out an update to limit the max charge rate and increased the taper by a large amount, and apparently hoped no one would notice, since they didn't tell us what was going on. I had to learn that here. They've since made it even worse.

Yep, that's an equally significant issue, the fact that they can screw up and then hide the facts behind updates and charging profiles.

Then on top of that they did little to nothing to mitigate the changes they made. The most obvious one (to me) would be to update the software that calculates where you need to stop to recharge by taking into account the new max charge rate and taper. While there have been some adjustments, the estimates are a bad joke, and "5 minutes to continue your trip" when the battery is over about 80% are more like 15-25 minutes. How hard can it really be to put the taper into those calculations? And for those who would say "That's only an estimate," I respond, "That's not an estimate; it's a joke." It is constantly, and from what I can tell, consistently very wrong.

I'm a retired engineer. I spent my career doing cutting edge work in the aerospace field, and we certainly had our share of unexpected events and conditions. But we communicated with our customers about them. Tesla very pointedly does NOT do that. Instead, they employ stealth to simply remove performance that was already bought and paid for. That's unethical in the extreme, and means NONE of their products can be trusted.

I agree. Normally reputation issues are reported by the press. I don't see much of that happening with Tesla's various issues. So reporting problems here seems to be the only viable method of letting others know what Tesla is doing.

 

[rshields89]

I received my S90D on 25 March, 2016.

It was a fantastic car. I recommended them to everyone. My 12-hour trip between Charleston, South Carolina and Merchantville, New Jersey took 14 hours with the Tesla because of charging stops, but I knew that would be the case going in, and all the other features of the car (including the free charging on the road) easily offset that inconvenience.

Besides, from its inception until about two years ago, Tesla seemed to be genuinely "partnering" with their customers on the whole electric vehicle experience.

Then the software downgrades began. One of the biggest ones was, of course, the unannounced and draconic degrading of my charge rate. This was apparently compounded later with additional degrading. All with no notification from Tesla.

The last time I checked, my 12 hour ICE drive was now over 16 with the Tesla - over FOUR HOURS of charging. That was a year and a half ago.

Since then I've made several trips from New Jersey to Wyoming and back in the Tesla. My time at chargers amounts to a full third of my total road time. That's one third of the time I'm on the road. Any idea what that does to your average rate of travel? If you drive at a sustained 70 mph, your total average trip speed is about 46 1/2 mph!

So maybe I was just unfortunate to have purchased a 90 kw battery? Then more recently I heard about the draconian attack on non-90kw battery charge rates AND max charge levels. Some with almost new cars have reported something similar - even in a few Model 3's!

So how can Tesla be trusted to stand behind any of their products? Answer: they can't. They seem to think it's okay to degrade anything that might become a warranty issue (read: financial liability) for the company.

So when people ask about the car, I tell them about the great features, how fun it is to drive, etc. Then I tell them about the underhanded way (IMO) Tesla has dealt with the early car purchasers, and how they should avoid buying a Tesla until all this is straightened out by the courts.

I hate doing that, but even though Tesla's collective conscience may be unfazed by their treatment of loyal customers, mine will not allow me to recommend a product produced by a company that behaves in this manner.

My wife, dog and I are making a road trip from Austin, TX to Tuscaloosa, Alabama on Friday. I bought my 2014 P85D off of this forum about a month ago and this would be by far my longest trip yet in the car. Reading this thread is making me scared of wanting to bring it now on the ~13 hour trip with an ICE. My Dad has a 2013 Lexus LS 460 he'd probably let me borrow. I was kind of excited to make the first road trip with a Tesla... I'm guessing the estimated time that the Tesla navigation estimates for total trip with charge times included is not very accurate and does not account for the slower supercharger charge times for these older models like mine?

 

[Battpower]

There is no CCS adapter for the Tesla yet.

Not sure what I have in the trunk of my Raven then!

 

[SO16]

Not sure what I have in the trunk of my Raven then!

Teslas in the UK has the CCS. Not the US.

 

[Battpower]

Teslas in the UK has the CCS. Not the US.

I guessed that was probably the case.

 

[PWlakewood]

My wife, dog and I are making a road trip from Austin, TX to Tuscaloosa, Alabama on Friday. I bought my 2014 P85D off of this forum about a month ago and this would be by far my longest trip yet in the car. Reading this thread is making me scared of wanting to bring it now on the ~13 hour trip with an ICE. My Dad has a 2013 Lexus LS 460 he'd probably let me borrow. I was kind of excited to make the first road trip with a Tesla... I'm guessing the estimated time that the Tesla navigation estimates for total trip with charge times included is not very accurate and does not account for the slower supercharger charge times for these older models like mine?

Just go on your road trip. Take whatever car you like as they both have a chance of breaking down.

 

[Nick70d]

Great car, but the company is not stand behind their words. They can change everything include yr car , yr warranty.....
totally not recomended.

 

[rsg123]

looks like my 85 has a hard limit of 50kW supercharging. Seconds after this photo was taken it dropped to 37 for a few minutes, now back up to 50. This was on a completely packed station though (150kW).

 

[ucmndd]

This was on a completely packed station though (150kW).

You can draw literally zero conclusions about the max charge rate of your car in this scenario.

 

[Geek190]

My wife, dog and I are making a road trip from Austin, TX to Tuscaloosa, Alabama on Friday. I bought my 2014 P85D off of this forum about a month ago and this would be by far my longest trip yet in the car. Reading this thread is making me scared of wanting to bring it now on the ~13 hour trip with an ICE. My Dad has a 2013 Lexus LS 460 he'd probably let me borrow. I was kind of excited to make the first road trip with a Tesla... I'm guessing the estimated time that the Tesla navigation estimates for total trip with charge times included is not very accurate and does not account for the slower supercharger charge times for these older models like mine?

Make the trip!
It's going to take a while to charge, but you knew it would when you bought it. It's going to take longer now than it used to, but it's not unbearable. It only becomes intolerable if you sit there thinking about how Tesla is capping your charge rate. It really starts to smart when you see so those M3's get an almost full charge in 20 minutes.... Get out and stretch your legs. Run into the convenience store and grab a coffee. The charging time is worst when you're sitting there watching it.

It charges faster at lower SoC, so don't try to charge it much more than just what you need to get to the next supercharger. Don't try to charge it enough to skip a supercharger. It will take WAY more time that way.

 

[aronth5]

So what would the OP recommend for me. I drive 12k miles a year in my Tesla and have never supercharged.
Blanket statements like the title of this thread need a little more thought when posting.

 

[Geek190]

So what would the OP recommend for me. I drive 12k miles a year in my Tesla and have never supercharged.
Blanket statements like the title of this thread need a little more thought when posting.

Sure...
That's why he typed out such a very long and detailed post. Your having never supercharged doesn't invalidate his concerns.
My battery volts haven't been capped, but I'm well aware of the capping that's been implemented. Just because it hasn't affected me personally doesn't mean it's not a real concern and a very good reason to distrust Tesla.

 

[rsg123]

You can draw literally zero conclusions about the max charge rate of your car in this scenario.

I was simply trying to convey that this was not a 72 kW “urban” charging station.
But way to just focus on that one word of my post. Don’t worry, I’m a Tesla fanboy too!

 

[PWlakewood]

I was simply trying to convey that this was not a 72 kW “urban” charging station.

View attachment 488658
looks like my 85 has a hard limit of 50kW supercharging. Seconds after this photo was taken it dropped to 37 for a few minutes, now back up to 50. This was on a completely packed station though (150kW).

Are you sure about that? Looks more like you were trying to show how low the charge rate was but what do I know.......

 

[ucmndd]

I was simply trying to convey that this was not a 72 kW “urban” charging station.
But way to just focus on that one word of my post. Don’t worry, I’m a Tesla fanboy too!

You said, I quote, “looks like my 85 has a hard limit of 50kW supercharging.”

So it seems to me you were trying to convey quite a bit more than that, and it needed a reality check. The conclusion you reached in your original statement is not supported or reasonable based on the conditions you describe - a “completely packed” v2 supercharging station.

 

[rsg123]

You said, I quote, “looks like my 85 has a hard limit of 50kW supercharging.”

So it seems to me you were trying to convey quite a bit more than that, and it needed a reality check. The conclusion you reached in your original statement is not supported or reasonable based on the conditions you describe, a “completely packed” v2 supercharging station.

I have not exceeded 50 kW at various low SOCs at 5 different superchargers—some completely packed and some where my car was the only one there. It’s one data point which is why I didn’t say “all 85s have a 50kW max”

 

[rsg123]

Are you sure about that? Looks more like you were trying to show how low the charge rate was but what do I know.......

The urban charger comment was in reply to the other guy’s highlight of the “150kW station” that I mentioned. But yes, my original post was about the low charge rate.

 

[ucmndd]

I have not exceeded 50 kW at various low SOCs at 5 different superchargers—some completely packed and some where my car was the only one there.

Cool story brosef. That would be relevant information to include in your original post. You should consider painting a complete picture in the future - it might avoid people telling you the facts you present make no sense or aren’t conclusive for a given set of conditions.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Temperature of your battery is the problem