What options do we have here in the UK other than refusing delivery, ie given the situation I was in?
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Why I returned the Performance M3 and ordered a Long Range, last week.
- Thread starter itzKris
- Start date
This is my understanding...
Are any of the financial contacts signed when the car is collected? If it's all signed online, then distance selling rules apply, giving 14 days to return without the need for a reason and you must receive a full refund.
It could be that consumer act rules apply better, giving anyone 30 days to return the car if it has a defect, but the seller must be given a chance to repair it first. If the repair is bad, then a full return and refund.
Refusing delivery at least gives you total control of the situation there and them.
Rustybkts
Member
It can't be cost effective to sell cars straight from the place they were returned to without even a cursory PDI surely.
Very odd mentality.
Very odd mentality.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
I don't think that Tesla have any form of PDI process at all, even on new cars, so they probably don't have anyone trained to do it, or a process set up, to do it on used cars. If they did even a rudimentary PDI then the majority of the clearly visible defects picked up by customers, either on collection day or shortly afterwards, would certainly be picked up. The paint damage to my car was visible from the other side of the collection area, and the same was true for several other cars being collected at the same time.
I can't see how it's cost effective to rework cars in service centres post delivery, either, it must be cheaper to just have a PDI team that correct problems before the cars are handed over, as pretty much every other manufacturer does. Some of the things that Tesla do differently make sense from both a cost effectiveness and customer experience perspective, but handing over cars with obvious faults isn't one of them. Not only does it make customers feel a bit put out when they realise that they are going to have another lengthy return trip later to get faults corrected, but it must cost Tesla more, in dealing with the constant stream of, possible annoyed, customers and shipping parts all over the country to SCs to enable faults to be fixed.
I can't see how it's cost effective to rework cars in service centres post delivery, either, it must be cheaper to just have a PDI team that correct problems before the cars are handed over, as pretty much every other manufacturer does. Some of the things that Tesla do differently make sense from both a cost effectiveness and customer experience perspective, but handing over cars with obvious faults isn't one of them. Not only does it make customers feel a bit put out when they realise that they are going to have another lengthy return trip later to get faults corrected, but it must cost Tesla more, in dealing with the constant stream of, possible annoyed, customers and shipping parts all over the country to SCs to enable faults to be fixed.
You would think so. on the other hand, they are selling every single car that they manage to squeeze out of the factories. Even crashed cars are selling for daft prices, some reportedly more than a brand new car, which is totally crazy.
Tesla Model Y demand is so high that even salvage title units are selling at full price
At some point they are going to have to change though. Once the market need starts to be satisfied and/or there are more options than Tesla, they will have to start respecting their customers a bit more. Until then, it's a sellers market.
I guess they save money because the customer does the PDI. If there are things to fix, there are things to fix regardless of who does the PDI as the in-workshop time is the same. The customer doing the PDI means the garage doesn't need to allow spare capacity for every new car having possbile faults and thereby meet delivery targets, so with everything scheduled though one customer booking process the workshop can run at 100%. It's all about efficiency, which is a different metric to pure cost.
I am not saying it is right, as it doesn't give customers the same new car experience and they treat a car like any household appliance.
I expect other makes of cars also have many issues, it's just that it's hidden from the customer through PDI.
I am not saying it is right, as it doesn't give customers the same new car experience and they treat a car like any household appliance.
I expect other makes of cars also have many issues, it's just that it's hidden from the customer through PDI.
Informative post OP, and I'm in the same train of thought at the moment...
I rejected my M3P due to damage inside and out and ultimately ended up cancelling the order altogether. However, 3 weeks on, I still haven't had the refund, so I contacted the Sales team yesterday and asked if I could put the money towards a new "refreshed" M3 LR. I was told "no" and would have to place a n new order all together... bit weird, but this is Tesla after all...
I'm fighting the urge to place an order for a M3LR now (well, when I get my refund anyway), even after I promised to wait until the Berlin built Model Y starts to roll of the production line next year....
I rejected my M3P due to damage inside and out and ultimately ended up cancelling the order altogether. However, 3 weeks on, I still haven't had the refund, so I contacted the Sales team yesterday and asked if I could put the money towards a new "refreshed" M3 LR. I was told "no" and would have to place a n new order all together... bit weird, but this is Tesla after all...
I'm fighting the urge to place an order for a M3LR now (well, when I get my refund anyway), even after I promised to wait until the Berlin built Model Y starts to roll of the production line next year....
12Pack
Member
Certainly the right thing to return the guilty car, but I just want to add that in principle I would always go for an M3P instead of a LR.
Its the only other Tesla I can see myself replacing my MS P100D with, is certainly the best Tesla to drive, and would be my choice if it was my only driver's car.
Its the only other Tesla I can see myself replacing my MS P100D with, is certainly the best Tesla to drive, and would be my choice if it was my only driver's car.
HenryT
Active Member
I think they perhaps also take the view that if they did the PDI they would find and have to repair more defects, whereas leaving it to the buyer to spot and report faults mean there will be fewer. Some buyers won't notice/can't be bothered.
It’s not like they are hiding it. The mileage is listed and there is a discount.Ah, so new definition of "new" then
A friend used to work for a manufacturer. He was always driving cars with manufacturers plates that they eventually sold as “new” with miles and a discount.
This “legal” “New” mostly helps with loans, rebates, and tax credits.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
There's certainly an element of can't be bothered. There's still a problem with the window alignment on the driver's side door of mine, with a seal bulging out by about 10mm and a lot of wind noise, but I've already wasted too much time driving to the Bristol SC and back getting things fixed (including this issue) so I'm going to try and sort it myself (and add some sound deadening inside the doors whilst I'm at it).
The car's only redeeming feature is really the performance, as the combination of the hassle of receiving a car with defects, the hassle of getting them fixed (the SC is over 2 hours drive away) and the ongoing uncertainty as to what's going to stop working, need a reboot, or whatever when there's a software update, has very definitely taken the edge off the whole ownership experience.
Of all the cars I've owned, I think the Model 3 has been the most irritating, with significantly more issues than any other new car I've ever bought. If there was a serious competitor, with a similar range and decent performance, then I'm not sure I'd buy another Tesla when the time comes to replace it. The Model Y would be tempting, as we'd like a hatchback, but there would be this niggle in the back of my mind that it might be a similar experience to owning my Model 3.
The car can be great fun, there's nothing quite like it at all, but I can't help feeling that I've paid Tesla for something that's not really a mature product yet. Nothing wrong with that in some respects; I bought a pre-production bit of new tech for the house a few years ago. However, when I bought that the purchase agreement was very explicit about it not being a fully production engineered product, and that part of the deal was that I'd have to expect some issues and help the developers fix them by giving them data. It wasn't until after buying the Model 3 that I realised Tesla ownership was similar, except I'd paid the full price to be a development test driver.
Ma
if it’s any help, I’d be happy to ping you my Tesla Referral link and at least we’ll be able to both take advantage of the 1,000 miles each. I made the mistake of referring myself the second time round but you only receive one instance of 1,000 miles so I should have just used someone else’s link!
Mate our situations sound identical, I love the Model Y roof and I too wanted to do the same and wait for the Model Y. That is quite far away though considering all European Model Y’s will come outta Giga Berlin which means 2022 at the earliest. I’m still waiting on my deposit, hopefully I get it back in time for when the Model 3 arrives next month!
if it’s any help, I’d be happy to ping you my Tesla Referral link and at least we’ll be able to both take advantage of the 1,000 miles each. I made the mistake of referring myself the second time round but you only receive one instance of 1,000 miles so I should have just used someone else’s link!
Drew57
Active ember
Maybe in some locations though?
Although my car was delivered by trailer direct from West Drayton, I had been in regular contact with a sales person (Daly) at my local Stockport Service Centre. He was home working due to lockdown and the SC was closed at the time.
During delivery I phoned and asked him about a couple of small issues with the car and he told me that he was the designated PDI person for that location and listed the trim, protective tape, roof glass sealant & paint issues to look out for where he would normally arrange for these to be remedied before customer collection. He told me that Paul, the SC Manager was very proactive & wanted to minimise wasted and frustrating return visits for customers, a high proportion never needing an appointment as a result.
When I had my post-delivery appointment a few weeks after they reopened, I was there for less than an hour & the Service Manager plus engineer who did the work came out to see me at the end to walk round the car and check I was happy. The Manager commented that both issues I had would have been easily rectified pre-delivery had the car been handled there. I believed him as they were very thorough and professional.
Correct but is it a false economy, faults still have to be fixed and is the lack of PDI worth the bad press Tesla receive? With social media it's so easy to let the world see the problems with your brand new £50K car, which in many cases really should not be there. Obvious defects that any customer is bound to notice and rightly complain about so the work still has to be done but the customer is left with a sour taste, when it could have been rectified beforehand and the customer drive away with a smile on their face. As everyone says Tesla still have little competition in the market, but in a few years that will be different. A strong car business is about repeat customers and brand loyalty, I think if they did proper PDI to every car before handover it would give much more confidence in the product.
LongRanger
Active Member
Until Tesla start thinking they are in the car business, they won’t change the approach. California isn’t really going to care about a PDI when it doesn’t cause them pain in the US. They will see us as a bonus cash generator not a core market and not worth the expense of falling back into line with “traditional” car delivery model/behaviours.
It suits them to be disruptive, effectively like going to one of those restaurants where you pay a fortune for a meal and to get a load of abuse - people do it because it’s different to other restaurants.
I hope they do feel the pain the coming months/years because it will make them a better company, just hoping that in the meantime nobody suffers a major safety issue with something underneath falling off due to lack of PDI/safety check post shipping. If someone gets killed then it changes the game and would have been completely preventable.
It suits them to be disruptive, effectively like going to one of those restaurants where you pay a fortune for a meal and to get a load of abuse - people do it because it’s different to other restaurants.
I hope they do feel the pain the coming months/years because it will make them a better company, just hoping that in the meantime nobody suffers a major safety issue with something underneath falling off due to lack of PDI/safety check post shipping. If someone gets killed then it changes the game and would have been completely preventable.
HenryT
Active Member
I suspect the position will only change when Tesla feel the cost of doing the remedial work after the event is more expensive than doing a PDI in the first place. The economics will be the main driver of any change.
MrBadger
Badger out
imho, Tesla's feast and famine approach to deliveries and financial cut-offs are big contributory factors in this. Hopefully Shanghai and Berlin will spread the load more and give time to check the cars over for defects and safety issues.
I too fee this will be the only thing forcing Tesla to change. I do hope they change as it seems to be policy more than anything else, everyone I’ve dealt with has been great but the lack of structure and policy really highlights how unpolished things are.
