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Why I stopped caring about luxury EV's

eyedrop

Member
Jan 18, 2018
164
122
Prescott AZ
I have owned and tinkered with many EV's over the years, and its my observation that boring, non-luxury, simple EV's such as the Bolt EV and the Kona EV are the only ones that are actually functionally reliable long term. They are about as high tech as you can get without things breaking constantly (if you care about long term ownership, past warranty etc..). With the non luxury EV's, you get no surprise 12V battery failures, no broken window regulators, no wind noises or rattles, no broken HVAC, no broken charge ports, no fancy door handles that break or require a special rain dance, no software updates (a good thing IMO). Just a simple intuitive car that you can pile in, slam the door, crank up the tunes with a twist knob and just blend in with society/drive without having to think about it... Not this stressful experience of apps and features that are always bombarding you and getting in the way of your daily life.

Imagine this common scenario: Your late to work, the 15 second door unlock delay as I fuss with the hideously complicated door handles while bluetooth is interrupting mid call with the Tesla sales dude on the phone as the cars display still wakes up and loads a huge operating system that always changes etc... Lets babysit autopilot while phantom braking etc... I stopped finding luxury in those kinds of things. I dont like that kind of mindset anymore when Im operating an automobile...

I also feel better about my carbon footprint knowing Im not going to need to trade up to the latest Tesla every 3 years. It seems pretty bad that all these sub 10 year old Tesla's are literally being parted out and rotting away due to lack of parts, service, etc.. Im really shocked the used prices have held so well despite this. Whats also interesting is to see the Audi, Mach E, Taycan, Ipace etc forums littered with lemon law language and bad experiences. Again, luxury EV's. If you go on the Leaf or Bolt message boards, its basically crickets with the occasional person complaining about charging infrastructure. But in my neck of the woods, that's changing fast. So yeah, no reason to buy a luxury EV unless you want to burn your money and be a beta tester. Im willing to wait until level 3 autonomy and a boring Lexus. Until then, why?

Please discuss...
 
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Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
259
287
916
I have owned and tinkered with many EV's over the years, and its my observation that boring, non-luxury, simple EV's such as the Bolt EV and the Kona EV are the only ones that are actually functionally reliable long term. They are about as high tech as you can get without things breaking constantly (if you care about long term ownership, past warranty etc..). With the non luxury EV's, you get no surprise 12V battery failures, no broken window regulators, no wind noises or rattles, no broken HVAC, no broken charge ports, no fancy door handles that break or require a special rain dance, no software updates (a good thing IMO). Just a simple intuitive car that you can pile in, slam the door, crank up the tunes with a twist knob and just blend in with society/drive without having to think about it... Not this stressful experience of apps and features that are always bombarding you and getting in the way of your daily life.

Imagine this common scenario: Your late to work, the 15 second door unlock delay as I fuss with the hideously complicated door handles while bluetooth is interrupting mid call with the Tesla sales dude on the phone as the cars display still wakes up and loads a huge operating system that always changes etc... Lets babysit autopilot while phantom braking etc... I stopped finding luxury in those kinds of things. I dont like that kind of mindset anymore when Im operating an automobile...

I also feel better about my carbon footprint knowing Im not going to need to trade up to the latest Tesla every 3 years. It seems pretty bad that all these sub 10 year old Tesla's are literally being parted out and rotting away due to lack of parts, service, etc.. Im really shocked the used prices have held so well despite this. Whats also interesting is to see the Audi, Mach E, Taycan, Ipace etc forums littered with lemon law language and bad experiences. Again, luxury EV's. If you go on the Leaf or Bolt message boards, its basically crickets with the occasional person complaining about charging infrastructure. But in my neck of the woods, that's changing fast. So yeah, no reason to buy a luxury EV unless you want to burn your money and be a beta tester. Im willing to wait until level 3 autonomy and a boring Lexus. Until then, why?

Please discuss...

Well, you can say the same about ICE cars. But - sometimes driving the "luxury" version is so much more enjoyable and relaxing. The Kona, Niro, Bolt - certainly good practical EVs - and great for around town. Not comfortable or enjoyable, in my opinion, on longer drives.
 

eyedrop

Member
Jan 18, 2018
164
122
Prescott AZ
I would argue that the Bolt I own is actually more comfortable on a long trip than my old Model S was, or even my friends new Model 3. Yes, Tesla seats are more comfortable (the Bolt EV's are fine for me), Tesla is faster (although Bolt is still pretty peppy for such a small car), and has autopilot (for the record Nissan Propilot works great). But the amount of road and wind noise is massive from Tesla and I can literally hear my ears ringing after stepping out of a Tesla post road trip. I can see charging being faster/more luxurious with the Tesla. But Im not the type to road trip daily like others seem to be on this forum. If I wanted a comfortable car for long drives, I would buy an S class. Not an EV.
 

eyedrop

Member
Jan 18, 2018
164
122
Prescott AZ
Another observation I had while road tripping with the Bolt recently is I no longer have to drive 20 minutes out of my way to just to get a Tesla (insert registered trademark) charge in Tuscon as there are many CCS 3rd party charges to choose from. I found that pretty convenient and time efficient. But that's just me on a particular trip...
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,622
7,794
Maine
That's certainly just you and people in a similar position.

Here there are more CCS locations than Tesla, but not as many chargers per location.
Some are just 1 CCS + 1 CHAdeMO.
Power is limited for most of them.
Also no coverage in the Northeast of the state.

There are a bunch coming at Irvings via the Efficiency Maine program and each will be 2 CCS and 2 CHAdeMO.
That'll be it for the VW money. Unfortunately:
- no chargers in Baileyville, ME so not helpful for the journey to the Maritimes, although helpful for the return.
- I hope the power is better than the current 62.5kW chargers, which wouldn't even max out our Kona.
 

ICUDoc

Active Member
May 19, 2015
1,716
1,127
Sydney NSW
I have owned and tinkered with many EV's over the years, and its my observation that boring, non-luxury, simple EV's such as the Bolt EV and the Kona EV are the only ones that are actually functionally reliable long term. They are about as high tech as you can get without things breaking constantly (if you care about long term ownership, past warranty etc..). With the non luxury EV's, you get no surprise 12V battery failures, no broken window regulators, no wind noises or rattles, no broken HVAC, no broken charge ports, no fancy door handles that break or require a special rain dance, no software updates (a good thing IMO). Just a simple intuitive car that you can pile in, slam the door, crank up the tunes with a twist knob and just blend in with society/drive without having to think about it... Not this stressful experience of apps and features that are always bombarding you and getting in the way of your daily life.

Imagine this common scenario: Your late to work, the 15 second door unlock delay as I fuss with the hideously complicated door handles while bluetooth is interrupting mid call with the Tesla sales dude on the phone as the cars display still wakes up and loads a huge operating system that always changes etc... Lets babysit autopilot while phantom braking etc... I stopped finding luxury in those kinds of things. I dont like that kind of mindset anymore when Im operating an automobile...

I also feel better about my carbon footprint knowing Im not going to need to trade up to the latest Tesla every 3 years. It seems pretty bad that all these sub 10 year old Tesla's are literally being parted out and rotting away due to lack of parts, service, etc.. Im really shocked the used prices have held so well despite this. Whats also interesting is to see the Audi, Mach E, Taycan, Ipace etc forums littered with lemon law language and bad experiences. Again, luxury EV's. If you go on the Leaf or Bolt message boards, its basically crickets with the occasional person complaining about charging infrastructure. But in my neck of the woods, that's changing fast. So yeah, no reason to buy a luxury EV unless you want to burn your money and be a beta tester. Im willing to wait until level 3 autonomy and a boring Lexus. Until then, why?

Please discuss...
My 2019 Raven Model S is very easy to get along with- most of the failures you describe belong, I think, to the older MCU 1 / 1.5 models.
I have had essentially perfect reliability for 16 months (from new) except for one 1 minute slow wake-up episode. So a lot of your fight is moot.
The carbon- footprint argument is excellent.
And the other argument is whether Teslas are luxury cars :)
 
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Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
259
287
916
I would argue that the Bolt I own is actually more comfortable on a long trip than my old Model S was, or even my friends new Model 3. Yes, Tesla seats are more comfortable (the Bolt EV's are fine for me), Tesla is faster (although Bolt is still pretty peppy for such a small car), and has autopilot (for the record Nissan Propilot works great). But the amount of road and wind noise is massive from Tesla and I can literally hear my ears ringing after stepping out of a Tesla post road trip. I can see charging being faster/more luxurious with the Tesla. But Im not the type to road trip daily like others seem to be on this forum. If I wanted a comfortable car for long drives, I would buy an S class. Not an EV.

I don’t consider Tesla to be a luxury car.
 

XLR82XS

D M C
Jul 26, 2019
3,141
1,793
SWFL | Vegas
I don’t consider Tesla to be a luxury car.
Definitely is not luxury. Recently sold my 2020 Model 3 and took delivery of my April ordered Taycan 5/29. Taycan was always on the radar since the 2019 launch - just out of the budget with turbo & turbo S variants. Enter the RWD variant - thank you Porsche! Always been a Porsche enthusiast and have owned plenty over the last couple decades. There really is no substitute.

The 3 was ok and filled the EV void but I'm glad to be out of Tesla ownership.
 
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erik.gnzo

Member
Jun 26, 2021
19
2
Jacksonville, FL
I think Tesla is a higher class car but not necessarily luxury either, especially when they have so many manufacturing flaws/imperfections. That being said, I really enjoy driving it. Only time will tell how I feel in the long run.
 
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alexgr

Member
Aug 13, 2019
761
663
42
Yes, there is Louise Voitin and there is a plastic ThankYou shopping bag. Got it. Luxury is what most people around you can't afford, so when Model 3 started to proliferate to the masses because of its cost and ICE car price inflation, Tesla became less attractive for the 'elite'. Good for Tesla as its end-game goal does not seem to be staying as a Luxury car brand.

Regarding EV Kia and Bolt as cars with fewer problems than Tesla ... talk to the hand.
 
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Black306

Member
Oct 14, 2019
577
829
Sacramento
….. Until then, why?

Please discuss... Change my mind
Fixed 😁

As others said, Tesla is not luxury. It’s a modern day, early years, Ford Motor Company of EVs.

.. But the amount of road and wind noise is massive from Tesla and I can literally hear my ears ringing after stepping out of a Tesla post road trip...
Boggles my mind when ever I read a statement similar to this. My Cobra doesn’t even make my ears ring. (Previous ‘90 Mustang was a different story 😝) The 3 I have is by far quieter than anything I’ve ever owned*. Not saying ‘the 3 is the quietist car on the road!,’ but just being an EV makes it one of the quieter cars available on a scale of all cars available. Definitely quieter than my Fusion.

* - FYI, I don’t buy luxury cars.


Personally, I didn’t buy Tesla for the “luxury” or tech. I bought one cause it’s a relatively cheap, performance focused EV. Until Ford comes out with a real Mustang EV (2 door, 2+2, sporty looking, performance focused EV; not the abomination it currently offers), a 3 Performance will suffice.


/also waits for a reasonably priced, totaled S Plaid drivetrain for a Factory Five 818C 😈 (poor man’s Rimac Nevera lol)
 
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polyphonic54

Member
Aug 29, 2019
329
254
USA
For whatever reason all EVs tend to bother my ears. Trading a luxury ICE for an EV motor is a minimal sonic benefit, and you get some other “EV sounds” especially in the high frequency realm.
Nothing beats a Mercedes or Lexus for comfort IMO.
I have also had endless problems with my e-tron.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Jul 12, 2017
5,530
10,224
Springfield, VA
Bolt EV and the Kona EV are the only ones that are actually functionally reliable long term

Both of these vehicles are seeing recalls (that haven't worked) and buybacks for battery fires. They are not yet shining examples of long term reliability.

But I certainly do agree with your premise that less complicated vehicles should provide better long term reliability, if for no other reason than there are fewer components to fail. I think Tesla has made great strides in both simplicity and reliability since the days of the classic Model S; our Model 3, while not being completely trouble-free, continues to exceed our expectations in all areas.
 

voyager

Member
Apr 28, 2009
941
481
Amsterdam, Netherlands
With the non luxury EV's, you get no surprise 12V battery failures, no broken window regulators, no wind noises or rattles, no broken HVAC, no broken charge ports, no fancy door handles that break or require a special rain dance, no software updates (a good thing IMO). Just a simple intuitive car that you can pile in, slam the door, crank up the tunes with a twist knob and just blend in with society/drive without having to think about it...
Right. A car on batteries is basically a big household appliance on wheels. You have fancy-looking and complicated espresso machines, and you have simpler ones that also do the job albeit not as exquisite as the one imported from Tuscany. IMO, an EV can be like an ICE car from 2 decades ago: without all the stuff that makes the EV prone to all sorts of electronic failures. The ultimate being an EV for which you have to use a key to unlock the doors and start the motor.
 
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