Why I stopped caring about luxury EV's

[eyedrop]

I have owned and tinkered with many EV's over the years, and its my observation that boring, non-luxury, simple EV's such as the Bolt EV and the Kona EV are the only ones that are actually functionally reliable long term. They are about as high tech as you can get without things breaking constantly (if you care about long term ownership, past warranty etc..). With the non luxury EV's, you get no surprise 12V battery failures, no broken window regulators, no wind noises or rattles, no broken HVAC, no broken charge ports, no fancy door handles that break or require a special rain dance, no software updates (a good thing IMO). Just a simple intuitive car that you can pile in, slam the door, crank up the tunes with a twist knob and just blend in with society/drive without having to think about it... Not this stressful experience of apps and features that are always bombarding you and getting in the way of your daily life.

Imagine this common scenario: Your late to work, the 15 second door unlock delay as I fuss with the hideously complicated door handles while bluetooth is interrupting mid call with the Tesla sales dude on the phone as the cars display still wakes up and loads a huge operating system that always changes etc... Lets babysit autopilot while phantom braking etc... I stopped finding luxury in those kinds of things. I dont like that kind of mindset anymore when Im operating an automobile...

I also feel better about my carbon footprint knowing Im not going to need to trade up to the latest Tesla every 3 years. It seems pretty bad that all these sub 10 year old Tesla's are literally being parted out and rotting away due to lack of parts, service, etc.. Im really shocked the used prices have held so well despite this. Whats also interesting is to see the Audi, Mach E, Taycan, Ipace etc forums littered with lemon law language and bad experiences. Again, luxury EV's. If you go on the Leaf or Bolt message boards, its basically crickets with the occasional person complaining about charging infrastructure. But in my neck of the woods, that's changing fast. So yeah, no reason to buy a luxury EV unless you want to burn your money and be a beta tester. Im willing to wait until level 3 autonomy and a boring Lexus. Until then, why?

Please discuss...

 

[Doc Brown]

I have owned and tinkered with many EV's over the years, and its my observation that boring, non-luxury, simple EV's such as the Bolt EV and the Kona EV are the only ones that are actually functionally reliable long term. They are about as high tech as you can get without things breaking constantly (if you care about long term ownership, past warranty etc..). With the non luxury EV's, you get no surprise 12V battery failures, no broken window regulators, no wind noises or rattles, no broken HVAC, no broken charge ports, no fancy door handles that break or require a special rain dance, no software updates (a good thing IMO). Just a simple intuitive car that you can pile in, slam the door, crank up the tunes with a twist knob and just blend in with society/drive without having to think about it... Not this stressful experience of apps and features that are always bombarding you and getting in the way of your daily life.

Imagine this common scenario: Your late to work, the 15 second door unlock delay as I fuss with the hideously complicated door handles while bluetooth is interrupting mid call with the Tesla sales dude on the phone as the cars display still wakes up and loads a huge operating system that always changes etc... Lets babysit autopilot while phantom braking etc... I stopped finding luxury in those kinds of things. I dont like that kind of mindset anymore when Im operating an automobile...

I also feel better about my carbon footprint knowing Im not going to need to trade up to the latest Tesla every 3 years. It seems pretty bad that all these sub 10 year old Tesla's are literally being parted out and rotting away due to lack of parts, service, etc.. Im really shocked the used prices have held so well despite this. Whats also interesting is to see the Audi, Mach E, Taycan, Ipace etc forums littered with lemon law language and bad experiences. Again, luxury EV's. If you go on the Leaf or Bolt message boards, its basically crickets with the occasional person complaining about charging infrastructure. But in my neck of the woods, that's changing fast. So yeah, no reason to buy a luxury EV unless you want to burn your money and be a beta tester. Im willing to wait until level 3 autonomy and a boring Lexus. Until then, why?

Please discuss...

Well, you can say the same about ICE cars. But - sometimes driving the "luxury" version is so much more enjoyable and relaxing. The Kona, Niro, Bolt - certainly good practical EVs - and great for around town. Not comfortable or enjoyable, in my opinion, on longer drives.

 

[eyedrop]

I would argue that the Bolt I own is actually more comfortable on a long trip than my old Model S was, or even my friends new Model 3. Yes, Tesla seats are more comfortable (the Bolt EV's are fine for me), Tesla is faster (although Bolt is still pretty peppy for such a small car), and has autopilot (for the record Nissan Propilot works great). But the amount of road and wind noise is massive from Tesla and I can literally hear my ears ringing after stepping out of a Tesla post road trip. I can see charging being faster/more luxurious with the Tesla. But Im not the type to road trip daily like others seem to be on this forum. If I wanted a comfortable car for long drives, I would buy an S class. Not an EV.

 

[eyedrop]

Another observation I had while road tripping with the Bolt recently is I no longer have to drive 20 minutes out of my way to just to get a Tesla (insert registered trademark) charge in Tuscon as there are many CCS 3rd party charges to choose from. I found that pretty convenient and time efficient. But that's just me on a particular trip...

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

That's certainly just you and people in a similar position.

Here there are more CCS locations than Tesla, but not as many chargers per location.
Some are just 1 CCS + 1 CHAdeMO.
Power is limited for most of them.
Also no coverage in the Northeast of the state.

There are a bunch coming at Irvings via the Efficiency Maine program and each will be 2 CCS and 2 CHAdeMO.
That'll be it for the VW money. Unfortunately:
- no chargers in Baileyville, ME so not helpful for the journey to the Maritimes, although helpful for the return.
- I hope the power is better than the current 62.5kW chargers, which wouldn't even max out our Kona.

 

[ICUDoc]

I have owned and tinkered with many EV's over the years, and its my observation that boring, non-luxury, simple EV's such as the Bolt EV and the Kona EV are the only ones that are actually functionally reliable long term. They are about as high tech as you can get without things breaking constantly (if you care about long term ownership, past warranty etc..). With the non luxury EV's, you get no surprise 12V battery failures, no broken window regulators, no wind noises or rattles, no broken HVAC, no broken charge ports, no fancy door handles that break or require a special rain dance, no software updates (a good thing IMO). Just a simple intuitive car that you can pile in, slam the door, crank up the tunes with a twist knob and just blend in with society/drive without having to think about it... Not this stressful experience of apps and features that are always bombarding you and getting in the way of your daily life.

Imagine this common scenario: Your late to work, the 15 second door unlock delay as I fuss with the hideously complicated door handles while bluetooth is interrupting mid call with the Tesla sales dude on the phone as the cars display still wakes up and loads a huge operating system that always changes etc... Lets babysit autopilot while phantom braking etc... I stopped finding luxury in those kinds of things. I dont like that kind of mindset anymore when Im operating an automobile...

I also feel better about my carbon footprint knowing Im not going to need to trade up to the latest Tesla every 3 years. It seems pretty bad that all these sub 10 year old Tesla's are literally being parted out and rotting away due to lack of parts, service, etc.. Im really shocked the used prices have held so well despite this. Whats also interesting is to see the Audi, Mach E, Taycan, Ipace etc forums littered with lemon law language and bad experiences. Again, luxury EV's. If you go on the Leaf or Bolt message boards, its basically crickets with the occasional person complaining about charging infrastructure. But in my neck of the woods, that's changing fast. So yeah, no reason to buy a luxury EV unless you want to burn your money and be a beta tester. Im willing to wait until level 3 autonomy and a boring Lexus. Until then, why?

Please discuss...

My 2019 Raven Model S is very easy to get along with- most of the failures you describe belong, I think, to the older MCU 1 / 1.5 models.
I have had essentially perfect reliability for 16 months (from new) except for one 1 minute slow wake-up episode. So a lot of your fight is moot.
The carbon- footprint argument is excellent.
And the other argument is whether Teslas are luxury cars

 

[Doc Brown]

I would argue that the Bolt I own is actually more comfortable on a long trip than my old Model S was, or even my friends new Model 3. Yes, Tesla seats are more comfortable (the Bolt EV's are fine for me), Tesla is faster (although Bolt is still pretty peppy for such a small car), and has autopilot (for the record Nissan Propilot works great). But the amount of road and wind noise is massive from Tesla and I can literally hear my ears ringing after stepping out of a Tesla post road trip. I can see charging being faster/more luxurious with the Tesla. But Im not the type to road trip daily like others seem to be on this forum. If I wanted a comfortable car for long drives, I would buy an S class. Not an EV.

I don’t consider Tesla to be a luxury car.

 

[XLR82XS]

I don’t consider Tesla to be a luxury car.

Definitely is not luxury. Recently sold my 2020 Model 3 and took delivery of my April ordered Taycan 5/29. Taycan was always on the radar since the 2019 launch - just out of the budget with turbo & turbo S variants. Enter the RWD variant - thank you Porsche! Always been a Porsche enthusiast and have owned plenty over the last couple decades. There really is no substitute.

The 3 was ok and filled the EV void but I'm glad to be out of Tesla ownership.

 

[InternetDude]

I traded my Model S for a Lexus LS500. Tesla is definitely not luxury.

 

[erik.gnzo]

I think Tesla is a higher class car but not necessarily luxury either, especially when they have so many manufacturing flaws/imperfections. That being said, I really enjoy driving it. Only time will tell how I feel in the long run.

 

[alexgr]

Yes, there is Louise Voitin and there is a plastic ThankYou shopping bag. Got it. Luxury is what most people around you can't afford, so when Model 3 started to proliferate to the masses because of its cost and ICE car price inflation, Tesla became less attractive for the 'elite'. Good for Tesla as its end-game goal does not seem to be staying as a Luxury car brand.

Regarding EV Kia and Bolt as cars with fewer problems than Tesla ... talk to the hand.

 

[Black306]

….. Until then, why?

Please discuss... Change my mind

Fixed

As others said, Tesla is not luxury. It’s a modern day, early years, Ford Motor Company of EVs.

.. But the amount of road and wind noise is massive from Tesla and I can literally hear my ears ringing after stepping out of a Tesla post road trip...

Boggles my mind when ever I read a statement similar to this. My Cobra doesn’t even make my ears ring. (Previous ‘90 Mustang was a different story ) The 3 I have is by far quieter than anything I’ve ever owned*. Not saying ‘the 3 is the quietist car on the road!,’ but just being an EV makes it one of the quieter cars available on a scale of all cars available. Definitely quieter than my Fusion.

* - FYI, I don’t buy luxury cars.


Personally, I didn’t buy Tesla for the “luxury” or tech. I bought one cause it’s a relatively cheap, performance focused EV. Until Ford comes out with a real Mustang EV (2 door, 2+2, sporty looking, performance focused EV; not the abomination it currently offers), a 3 Performance will suffice.


/also waits for a reasonably priced, totaled S Plaid drivetrain for a Factory Five 818C (poor man’s Rimac Nevera lol)

 

[polyphonic54]

For whatever reason all EVs tend to bother my ears. Trading a luxury ICE for an EV motor is a minimal sonic benefit, and you get some other “EV sounds” especially in the high frequency realm.
Nothing beats a Mercedes or Lexus for comfort IMO.
I have also had endless problems with my e-tron.

 

[Big Earl]

Bolt EV and the Kona EV are the only ones that are actually functionally reliable long term

Both of these vehicles are seeing recalls (that haven't worked) and buybacks for battery fires. They are not yet shining examples of long term reliability.

But I certainly do agree with your premise that less complicated vehicles should provide better long term reliability, if for no other reason than there are fewer components to fail. I think Tesla has made great strides in both simplicity and reliability since the days of the classic Model S; our Model 3, while not being completely trouble-free, continues to exceed our expectations in all areas.

 

[voyager]

With the non luxury EV's, you get no surprise 12V battery failures, no broken window regulators, no wind noises or rattles, no broken HVAC, no broken charge ports, no fancy door handles that break or require a special rain dance, no software updates (a good thing IMO). Just a simple intuitive car that you can pile in, slam the door, crank up the tunes with a twist knob and just blend in with society/drive without having to think about it...

Right. A car on batteries is basically a big household appliance on wheels. You have fancy-looking and complicated espresso machines, and you have simpler ones that also do the job albeit not as exquisite as the one imported from Tuscany. IMO, an EV can be like an ICE car from 2 decades ago: without all the stuff that makes the EV prone to all sorts of electronic failures. The ultimate being an EV for which you have to use a key to unlock the doors and start the motor.

 

[brkaus]

Glad you enjoy your bolt.

I enjoy my leaf. I also enjoy my 3 & S.

 

[gtae07]

Right. A car on batteries is basically a big household appliance on wheels. You have fancy-looking and complicated espresso machines, and you have simpler ones that also do the job albeit not as exquisite as the one imported from Tuscany. IMO, an EV can be like an ICE car from 2 decades ago: without all the stuff that makes the EV prone to all sorts of electronic failures. The ultimate being an EV for which you have to use a key to unlock the doors and start the motor.

As I grow older (and professionally, support both older-tech aircraft and newer ones) I grow ever more appreciative of older, less-integrated tech in many ways. The new stuff is really cool and for the most part reliable, but when it goes down it can be harder to troubleshoot and the fix is all too often "replace the expensive all-in-one box" instead of "replace the $20 switch".

I'd really like to replace my 2005 short-cab F150, and I don't want to buy another ICE vehicle if I can avoid it. But right now (even without supply shortages) I can't justify the cost of a new EV. Anything in my price range is crippled by short range (I refuse to pay new-car pricing for something that's strictly a local-commuter car). Anything with decent range commands a big premium because it's full of fancy tech that I don't want. It's just like the legacy automaker practice of "packages" where you have to pay a buttload of money for a package full of things you don't care about to get the one thing you do.

I don't need a panoramic sunroof that turns the car into more of an oven than it already is here in the deep South. (Though I guess at least there's no clearcoat to break down and peel off like my wife's Odyssey...)
I don't need voice command that misinterprets me and dials old college buddies when I try to call my wife.
I don't need windows that have to go up and down just to open the door, or puddle lights that break that function when they burn out.
I don't need "hop in and go" functionality--pushbutton start is really nice though.
I don't need a homegrown proprietary entertainment interface, because in my experience those always have quirks and bugs and never work as well as phone apps with wider user bases. Just give me AA/Carplay, or a plain 2-DIN radio so I can put in an aftermarket head unit that supports the same (like I did to my truck).
I don't need sports-car acceleration--cool as it is (my one time in a Tesla, I got to floor it in a M3LR and giggled uncontrollably).

If I could plan my own EV:
Give me regular physical controls that rarely break, can be troubleshot, and can be found/activated in the dark by feel and/or without waking up my sleeping passengers.
Give me Android Auto.
Give me at least 200-250 usable interstate miles with a couple passengers and the AC/heat pump running and some battery degredation factored in--not 250 EPA miles--and a good charging network.
Give me decent (at least short-range) towing ability, so I can take a trailer to Lowe's or move things around town.
Give me leather (or fake leather) seats for durability and easy cleaning with a young child.
Give me a spare tire.

The one cool EV feature I'd really like is programmable preconditioning. Right now I set my truck up to precondition in the winter with a small heater fan strapped to the center armrest, an extension cord, and a mechanical timer.


Put all that in a minivan or Ranger/Maverick sized truck (even for $40k) and I'd be happy as a clam. I'm holding out hope for the Silverado work truck; we'll see what the final specs look like. The base Lightning just doesn't have the range...

 

[tm1v2]

Wait, Teslas are "luxury" cars? I have two and that's news to me!

I can't be the only one who saw the thread title and assumed the OP was sick of their E-Tron or didn't like the new EQS and wanted back into a Tesla!

(Btw I'm not knocking Tesla. These cars do have luxurious power, and obviously I value what Tesla has to offer more than ICE luxury cars.)

 

[thesmokingman]

Wait, Teslas are "luxury" cars? I have two and that's news to me!

I can't be the only one who saw the thread title and assumed the OP was sick of their E-Tron or loaded Taycan or such!

(Btw I'm not knocking Tesla for making high performing non-luxury EVs at luxury ICE car prices. I obviously value what Tesla has to offer more.)

Yea, hehe kind of this. Tesla's are like anti-luxury. Fake leather, glorified PU er vegan leather, all those fancy knobs and dials removed, it's not luxury in the traditional sense. It's like tech chic more like and in spades. You're not wearing a Rolex, you're flaunting the latest iPhone something like driving a phone lmao.

 

[gtae07]

Wait, Teslas are "luxury" cars? I have two and that's news to me!

They're priced like they are, at least to most of the population. I mean, I make pretty good money and all, but I just don't see how so many people here afford one Tesla, let alone multiple ones. It's astounding how many posts I see where people trade in a barely-used car and get another new one like I cycle through running shoes.

I realize we're still in the early-adopter cycle (perhaps in the later stages) and further development is being funded by those who can pay the premium... but until usable EVs (with reasonable not-a-PITA road trip utility) are available in price ranges comparable to average, boring ICE vehicles, and the focus shifts to affordability and utility over driving experience and cool techiness, they'll continue to be luxury vehicles, regardless of whether they're equipped like traditional luxury vehicles.