Why I Won't Be Ordering EAP and FSD

[Bearlytiger2]

This article summarizes why I won't be ordering EAP and FSD when I'm asked to configure. Might make sense 5 years from now, but the current version of EAP is way overpriced for what it can do compared to other car companies in my opinion , and according to this research, you would be foolish to buy FSD from a company that now lags almost all other players in this space.

Tesla isn't the self-driving leader you might think it is, study argues

 

[run-the-joules]

Car isn't even worth buying if you don't get EAP, in my opinion. I can understand not buying FSD but I'll never, ever buy another car that doesn't have TACC with full speed range management.

Also:

ANNOYING-AS-HELL autoplay video warning in the link. I hope whoever implemented that gets 90 days of diarrhea.

 

[ABC2D]

ANNOYING-AS-HELL autoplay video warning in the link. I hope whoever implemented that gets 90 days of diarrhea.

Agree!
Install "Disable HTML5 Autoplay" extension

Pardon for an off-topic tanagent

 

[R-123]

I've thought for a while now that EAP package is how Tesla makes money on the cars now, M3 included. I mean stuff like auto parking, radar cruise control, blind spot monitoring, automatic wipers, is what you get in a tech package for $1, maybe $2k tops, elsewhere. Having a car stay in line for extra $4k is way way overpriced. But it works for Tesla so good for them. Maybe in a couple of years it will drop to more reasonable pricing when I'll be getting my M3

 

[sperkin]

Can you tell me which current car has better AP than Tesla? I'm only interested in AP.

I'm not sure if the current MB E-class can stay in the lane but some other cars I drove only warn you if you go outside the lane or only turn when the car go outside the lane. It wasn't fun ping ponging between lanes. I need a car that stays center and follows the car in front of it.

 

[T34ME]

This article summarizes why I won't be ordering EAP and FSD when I'm asked to configure. Might make sense 5 years from now, but the current version of EAP is way overpriced for what it can do compared to other car companies in my opinion , and according to this research, you would be foolish to buy FSD from a company that now lags almost all other players in this space.

Tesla isn't the self-driving leader you might think it is, study argues

You could be right. Many features of a Tesla are over priced. $1K for multi-coat paint? $5K for PUP with many features people don't want or need? >$100K for a MX?

But specifically for EAP, what other companies have a workable model in their cars (GM, Ford, Renault?)? What is/will be the cost of their autonomous driving option? Have you driven the 3 with EAP? I recommend you test drive a Bolt and compare it for features and price to a model 3, then make your decision.

I WILL BE getting EAP and FSD with my order. $8K for EAP/FSD or $9K for LR? The choice for me and my needs is a no brainer. Although perhaps overpriced right now, the TACC alone is worth it to me. I don't put a price on safety. You can always add EAP and FSD later for $1K premiums, BUT the $1K premium is NOT guaranteed forever. The price will only go up as features are added. Penny wise and pound foolish. If you purchase EAP and FSD now, all new features will be included in the price through software updates, which are being added frequently. Choose carefully.

 

[Yinn]

This article summarizes why I won't be ordering EAP and FSD when I'm asked to configure. Might make sense 5 years from now, but the current version of EAP is way overpriced for what it can do compared to other car companies in my opinion , and according to this research, you would be foolish to buy FSD from a company that now lags almost all other players in this space.

Tesla isn't the self-driving leader you might think it is, study argues

The article is correct. What Tesla bills as "AutoPilot" has actually been around for over a decade. What Tesla has done that others have been reluctant (until the past year) to do is allow more freedom. This manifests itself mainly through allowing Cruise Control to come to a complete stop and restart, as well as allowing it to go an extended period of time maintaining a lane. FSD isn't even available, so some may say it's a bit foolish to throw money at vaporware. I certainly did not spend the $10,000 on EAP nor FSD on my Tesla S purchase.

If it weren't already enabled on my inventory X, I wouldn't have gotten it on that either. I do have to say though, I use EAP quite a bit more than I thought I ever would - both in commuting as well as road trips. When I switch from the X to my S, I also miss it. That's probably why on my replacement X, I actively chose to purchase EAP.

One thing to also remember is that while we all have an Apple fever on these cars. They're still just cars - used for transportation. Their #1 job is to get us from point A to point B, reliably; and in that area Tesla lags behind almost all other players in this space (#21 of 27) A Chevy Bolt is just far more reliable (#18), has a much more extensive service center/dealer network, and is an excellent car for half the price of what a Model 3 would cost (which you can't truly buy freely yet) or about 1/3 of the price of a readily available Model S. It might make more sense a year or two from now when they work through the backlog and you can easily and readily buy a $35,000 Model 3, but as of right now Tesla's are overpriced for what other car companies offer on their lot today in my opinion.

One may even consider it foolish to buy a Tesla, I've certainly been told as such. But boy do I like both my S and my X, and the EAP on it isn't too shabby either.

 

[Tiger]

I wouldn't buy a car if I wanted to be driven around, I'd just get an UBER ride

 

[run-the-joules]

I've thought for a while now that EAP package is how Tesla makes money on the cars now, M3 included. I mean stuff like auto parking, radar cruise control, blind spot monitoring, automatic wipers, is what you get in a tech package for $1, maybe $2k tops, elsewhere. Having a car stay in line for extra $4k is way way overpriced. But it works for Tesla so good for them. Maybe in a couple of years it will drop to more reasonable pricing when I'll be getting my M3

It’s important to note that the TACC from most other manufacturers doesn’t handle stop and go traffic anywhere near as gracefully, requiring you to tap the throttle to take off from a stop again. It’s incredibly annoying.

 

[wpnelson]

If you live out here in Mountain View, there's really no denying that Waymo is way out ahead in terms of true autonomous car work. Those cars are ubiquitous, and handling all sorts of traffic issues that would stump AP - double parked cars, nutty pedestrians, traffic circles, etc.

 

[jelloslug]

You have no idea what you are missing if you don't order EAP.

 

[run-the-joules]

One thing to also remember is that while we all have an Apple fever on these cars. They're still just cars - used for transportation. Their #1 job is to get us from point A to point B, reliably; …

…A Chevy Bolt is just far more reliable (#18), has a much more extensive service center/dealer network, and is an excellent car for half the price of what a Model 3 would cost (which you can't truly buy freely yet) or about 1/3 of the price of a readily available Model S.

Without TACC, a Chevy Bolt isn't worth the metal the frame is made from. I wouldn't pay $1000 for one, let alone 37 times that. Plus, I highly recommend that everyone actually try driving a Bolt so you can understand how crappy the seats in it are.

As for the job of a car… I think you're reducing it too far. Its job is to get me safely from A to B in comfort, isolated from other people with whom I do not want to share a space, and be enjoyable while doing so.

 

[SteveG3]

As an observer of developments in autonomous tech, if I had access to the whole Navigant study, rather than the very very brief CNET piece about it, it might be helpful to understanding how the various companies will do in terms of getting to FSD (or not, I might read through the study and decide it's way off the mark, like various studies in recent years on when EVs will be priced competitively with ICE).

The study details might also reinforce my decision to hold off on buying FSD with my Model 3 until we see what Tesla actually develops.

As to getting enhanced autopilot, I don't see anything useful for me in this report of the study, particularly as we have plenty of feedback on other drivers' take on how useful AP is. That's what has me sold on buying it right off the bat. To be fair, for anyone who wasn't aware that the transition from Mobileye to Tesla going in house has been rougher than what Tesla had in mind, the article would be of some help.

I happened to see this response on Reddit last night to a question about how useful AP is in an AMA done by YouYou about his trip (to be clear, the answer did not come from YouYou, the guy who drove across North America in his 3, himself). Even if it turns out to be some very big hyperbole, given my driving needs, AP in my car looks like it will be a homerun.

"thebluehawk2014 S85 3 points 1 day ago

I love driving, I always have. I love going on road trips and seeing new things. That said, driving for many hours sucks. Do you know the slight mental fatigue you get after driving for hours? Doesn't happen with autopilot. It's by far one of my favorite things about my car. The car takes care of the menial repetitive tasks so after driving all day, you feel fine. Driving for 6 hours feels just like my 20 minute commute to work."

Just finished a 21-day international road trip in a Model 3 - AMA • r/teslamotors

 

[Need]

I would buy a gas car if it has Tesla autopilot. Most of the auto steer/radar cruise control of other manufacturer does not work in traffic. But I don't need it when it is going 75mph without any cars in sight. I need it on my 3 hours commute every day in traffic. Actually auto steer is not as important as TACC. I have read reviews on other car's radar cruise control and they all seems to turn off in slow traffic where Tesla's work best in slow traffic. I have a MX. I think other cars would do it but they are deadly afraid of lawsuits. My Lexus won't even let me do anything on the main screen when the car is moving above 15 mph.

As for FSD, I wouldn't pay for it until it became legal locally.

 

[run-the-joules]

I would buy a gas car if it has Tesla autopilot. Most of the auto steer/radar cruise control of other manufacturer does not work in traffic. But I don't need it when it is going 75mph without any cars in sight. I need it on my 3 hours commute every day in traffic. Actually auto steer is not as important as TACC. I have read reviews on other car's radar cruise control and they all seems to turn off in slow traffic where Tesla's work best in slow traffic. I have a MX. I think other cars would do it but they are deadly afraid of lawsuits. My Lexus won't even let me do anything on the main screen when the car is moving above 15 mph.

Exactly it. This is why I'm buying a Tesla.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Yes, a long distance, interstate drive or stop-and-go situations is where I have enjoyed my AP1 S's Autosteer or TACC features. But, those situations are more an exception than the rule for me so, I've hardly used those features in the past year or so.

Autosteer has also provided, let's say, interesting moments when the car briefly took some unwanted liking to the edges of lanes and obstacles next to them so, I've found driving with Autosteer more stressful than driving the car myself. I've found TACC to be convenient but, highly inefficient and jarring as it tends to take off too fast when traffic in front speeds up and brakes too hard when the traffic in front slows down; I can do a much smoother job with my one pedal driving while accommodating for the traffic speed changes in front.

Subsequently, punted on EAP and FSD altogether in our 3. I can always buy them after the fact if and when Tesla makes groundbreaking improvements.

And, to be honest, at this point, Tesla is selling vaporware in the name of FSD which I personally find rather unethical. I'd think that most folks will complete their leases or move on from their current Tesla before Tesla can ever get it right and get regulatory approval.

 

[Yinn]

Without TACC, a Chevy Bolt isn't worth the metal the frame is made from. I wouldn't pay $1000 for one, let alone 37 times that. Plus, I highly recommend that everyone actually try driving a Bolt so you can understand how crappy the seats in it are.

As for the job of a car… I think you're reducing it too far. Its job is to get me safely from A to B in comfort, isolated from other people with whom I do not want to share a space, and be enjoyable while doing so.

I think you Sir are missing the point. If the OP wants to reduce it to just simple dollars and cents, then a Bolt is a perfectly acceptable alternative and a better value than the Model 3, especially if said Model 3 doesn't have Tesla's AP.

The POINT is that it can't always be measured by studies and numbers, and sometimes things just work well and can be appreciated. Perhaps you should reread my post and you'll see that I like both my Tesla and my EAP.

 

[SMAlset]

My husband really loves the TACC on the car especially in close traffic during rush hour but even on the highway on trips it's nice.

As for the cost of Tesla features, people should keep in mind that Tesla is still a young company and not producing cars at the rates of the major manufacturers so their costs per car are much higher than those big guys. So in part that's what we are paying for in features or things like paint. Smaller scale, higher price tag. And as far as the price charged for EAP/FSD goes, we can't forget that in order to provide the current and future driving experience Tesla foresees for its cars, all the cars regardless of the ones that order EAP or FSD, get equipped with the cameras. So that, plus all the software development and OTA upgrades has to be factored in too. These aren't off the shelf items by any means. And it's one of the reasons I think we all probably love Tesla. Very innovative and constantly trying to update and provide the best driving experience they can.

To save costs, I'm sure the big car guys will be buying software from other companies out there customizing it a bit maybe, not unlike phone manufacturers out there that rely on someone else to do the software implementation. Of course we all know how that has affected these phone manufacturers who can't do OTA upgrades readily. And with pretty much off the shelf parts, the only way they set themselves off from the rest is by the appearance and maybe some features of their devices. I see many of these future EVs being the same for similar reasons.

Tesla has put much research into it's battery technology and continues to make headway in that field. The big car guys will be buying from companies that will be making batteries and hoping to sell to all the other car companies to keep the cost down. They'll be buying technology that someone else is doing the research into and decides is good enough. At least we will see Tesla with their Energy segment pushing forward with high volume on battery products so assume we'll see pricing breaks as this picks up.

As for the cost of Teslas, I do believe the research and development and maintenance will always be a certain percent regardless of ways Tesla can cut costs, like working on developing the cars without as much wiring throughout. Certainly the scaling back of options for production runs is another way and allows them to buy in bigger quantities and at a better price point. When they get their production line set and running at peak or near peak rates, being able to sell more cars should also help bring costs down. In the meantime there's really one one Tesla out there and why we're willing to support it.

 

[run-the-joules]

I think you Sir are missing the point. If the OP wants to reduce it to just simple dollars and cents, then a Bolt is a perfectly acceptable alternative and a better value than the Model 3, especially if said Model 3 doesn't have Tesla's AP.

The POINT is that it can't always be measured by studies and numbers, and sometimes things just work well and can be appreciated. Perhaps you should reread my post and you'll see that I like both my Tesla and my EAP.

I understand that you like your EAP, I'm more saying for the sake of others that there's more to a car than reliability or cost of purchase, otherwise we'd all buy soulless pieces of garbage. If people want to put a few thousand dollars ahead of their enjoyment of life, that's their prerogative but I figure with only 80-90 years or so on the planet I might as well enjoy 'em.

 

[Electroman]

I would buy a gas car if it has Tesla autopilot. Most of the auto steer/radar cruise control of other manufacturer does not work in traffic. But I don't need it when it is going 75mph without any cars in sight. I need it on my 3 hours commute every day in traffic. Actually auto steer is not as important as TACC. I have read reviews on other car's radar cruise control and they all seems to turn off in slow traffic where Tesla's work best in slow traffic. I have a MX. I think other cars would do it but they are deadly afraid of lawsuits. My Lexus won't even let me do anything on the main screen when the car is moving above 15 mph.

As for FSD, I wouldn't pay for it until it became legal locally.

This ^^

AP and the decent range is the only reason why I would buy a Tesla. AP is the next thing to sliced bread. Greatest stress reliever ever engineered in the auto industry.