Why I Won't Be Purchasing My 3rd Model S

[S4WRXTTCS]

I dont get these types of threads either. I think they are more therapy for the OP to convince themselves they made the right decision.

I am pretty sure I am in the top percent for car/motorcycle enthusiasts. I have albums/sound tracks of all types of engines. I have a two stroke scented candle in my office (not to mention 5 real two strokes). I dont ever remember I time in my life I didn't make engine noises pushing a hot wheel (truthfully I dont remember the age when I starting making the correct engine noise for the right car).

OK the M5 is well designed (my M was a piece of junk but we will not go into that). I would rather drive my Tesla than any other 4 wheel vehicle (some of the 2 wheel too) I own. It is a best street vehicle in my opinion period.

Good luck with your M and I hope you convinced yourself

I found the post useful in understanding what someone values, and how they process a decision. I might not agree with it entirely, but he does bring up some good points.

I imagine a person in his shoes is used to his opinions meaning something, and is likely why he posted. I say he without really knowing because it's almost always a male when someone spouts their opinion to strangers that they've never talked to before.

In some ways it was refreshing though. By being a stranger the OP was shielded from much of the social elements, and the adventures of ownership. Thereby allowing it to be about the car itself.

The OP wasn't on here waiting for an AP update to drop like a Christmas present.
The OP probably wasn't obsessing about when some Supercharger would come online
The OP probably wouldn't find excitement from the neural net thread

In a lot of ways the Tesla is a not just a car, but an adventure.

A lot of us got it (including the OP) when it was something new, and refreshing that wasn't like anything else. Hardly any of us have experienced the kind of instant torque, and how smoothly the power is applied with the electric power train.

Some of us were so enthralled with it that we can't escape it. It doesn't matter whether it's Tesla, Porsche, Audi, etc. What matters is the EV drive train. The whole EV vs. Gas environmental question doesn't even matter. What matter is when we hit the go pedal that the car GOES. It doesn't sit around making noise, and it doesn't hesitate. When we let of the pedal it starts reclaiming some of the energy. It never announces to the world what it's doing like an ICE car does.

When it's all said and done I think the OP just likes new and shiny things. The Model S is not new and shiny. It's certainly evolved from what he has.

 

[xyeahtony]

Im confused, OP says he bit the bullet on depreciation so he could get autopilot, then he goes back to a ICE car with no such features.
"it is not as fast as a Model S to 60" but you insisted on a P100D instead of a 100D for the performance, even though a P100D is less than 2 seconds faster to 60mph than a 100D???


enjoy paying for premium gas and not being able to preheat/precool your car...lol.

 

[ferdboyce]

Well, some people like to work for a company where everyone wears a suit and tie . . . and some like an environment that permits . . . no, encourages, its folks to be more concerned with performance than appearance. Can't fault a 'suit and tie' guy to want to move back to his 'suit and tie' kind of firm. I hope he'll be happy there.

 

[mxb172]

"it is not as fast as a Model S to 60" but you insisted on a P100D instead of a 100D for the performance, even though a P100D is less than 2 seconds faster to 60mph than a 100D???

M5 0-60 is 2.8 seconds. I can live with that.

Will definitely miss the remote heating/cooling.

 

[TaoJones]

It's not a thing even in CA, except for *maybe* 2-3 locations.

Well, regrettably, from the update/dose of reality department:

Definitely 6-8 locations now in SoCal alone.

Partial list that are full midday and evenings and often both:
Culver City
Redondo Beach
Hawthorne/SpaceX
Fountain Valley
SJC
Even San Clemente (21 stalls) on weekends
San Diego 1 (Sorrento Valley/Qualcomm)

Also under pressure:
Buena Park
Santa Ana
Burbank
Oxnads
Thousand Oaks

Promises from Tesla include +10 SCs/150 pedestals in San Diego County alone in the next 11.5 months. Those of us who know better just quietly laugh and point. Which is not to say that +5/50 wouldn’t be a laudable effort.

The next 6 months will tell the story in SoCal. Either the whole region regresses to what the OC was when it had all of 1 SC and the highest ownership density on the continent, or Tesla stays abreast of demand.

It ain’t rocket science.

 

[Chris Fox]

Yeah...smells a little fishy....but enjoy the gasser..I guess.

Exactly.. Enjoy going to the pump every week, using a gas pump handle that has never been washed and is covered in ecoli and other bacteria and dropping $75+ to do it. Then enjoy the oil leaks, the brake replacements and everything else that comes with owning a crappy gas car.

 

[TaoJones]

A note about buying the competition... the field will get crowded soon. As in for reals soon, even.

However, it’s worth noting that buying a Tesla means buying into the infrastructure as well - the SC network - Tesla’s competitive advantage.

Putting aside those who are buying a second car, an in-town car, an urban only car, and casting the harsh glare of reality upon the current and imminent state of those other charging networks, it’s easy to give Tesla the collective nod.

Buying a Taycan and having nowhere to drive it would be laughable. Unless it’s intended to be an in-town only car.

Talk about a gilded cage and a few other fractured literary devices.

If Tesla drops the ball in the canary in a coal mine markets (see coastal California), then you’ll have Taycan owners embroiled in fisticuffs at the 2 high side chargers (out of a bank of 4 CCS) both going and coming from Vegas (Baker, CA), while Tesla owners observe Robert’s Rules in the shade (40-stall covered SC also at Baker). Nope - no fisticuffs at the Baker SC. The Tesla fisticuffs will happen at Fountain Valley .

 

[Chris Fox]

Where does the energy for your Tesla come from? Mine comes from coal plants.
What is the environmental impact of the cobalt mining required for the batteries? And speaking of batteries, were do those go once the car becomes obsolete in 5-7 years?

That type of hyperbole and looking down your nose towards people driving ICE cars is childish.

Regardless of my feelings for Tesla, having also come from a BMW, I can confirm much of what OP is saying is pretty accurate.

My energy comes from Hydro power. Tesla is reducing its cobalt and the little cobalt it currently uses comes from the Philippines and Canada. Also... even if you get your power from coal (why arent you using solar? don't you care the world is literally burning to the ground?) it's still cleaner than your disgusting BMW

 

[bmah]

I would like to remind everyone to please respect others' opinions, and to not disparage other members when they make and express different choices.

Thanks to the OP for sharing his views...I thought it was a thoughtful post that spawned an interesting discussion.

Bruce.

 

[JonathanD]

I would like to remind everyone to please respect others' opinions, and to not disparage other members when they make and express different choices.

Thanks to the OP for sharing his views...I thought it was a thoughtful post that spawned an interesting discussion.

Bruce.

Bruce, you are a nice person. I always enjoy your posts and I can feel the honesty. I appreciate it a lot, and I try to emulate that also. And even when people are not nice, I try not to engage or encourage negativity. However, there is only one reason to post on a Tesla forum that you are going to run off and buy an M5. And that's to stir the pot. Just saying

 

[somnambule]

How long have there been "rumors" of an interior refresh? Almost a year? And now we find out it's probably 2 years away in Elon time? Things need to change. I guess the world always needs sheep like some of you on this forum.

I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if others have already said this.

It goes without saying that anyone is free to spend their own money however they wish. However, I'll take exception to the "sheep" comment. Your original post isn't saying anything most of us don't already know, given that most of us used to own (and/or still do) vehicles from traditional luxury brands. Many of us bought a Tesla in part because Tesla was leading a revolution that we believed was worthwhile. One that no one else was willing to spearhead. Part of the purchase price is for a stake in that larger purpose. We fully realize the interior materials and fit/finish don't justify the price tag, but the traditional luxury brands aren't investing in building supercharger networks and other infrastructure (they can afford to spend more of the price on the luxury aspect).

In other words, we are "investing" in more than just the car we drive. Not everyone may get that but, IMO, calling us sheep for that is no more appropriate than any of us calling you a <pick favorite derogatory term> for driving a gas guzzler.

 

[whitex]

I echo a lot of the concerns of the OP (especially with service), but I'm more of a purist when it comes to wanting a drivers car. The whole massaging seats thing sounds nice, but I'd rather drive. That's why I tend to opt for the lesser cars (the S4 instead of the S8, the M3 instead of the M5, etc).

Car companies had to introduce those frivolous niceties on the top end because there isn't a whole lot of room for improvement on an ICE vehicle.

Not everyone here wants massage seats, some would settle for interiors that don't squeak and rattle, or some decent cell phone integration, or surround view, or safety features like EAB that actually stops, or blind spot monitoring that actually works, maybe cross traffic warning. You may call those frivolous niceties, sure, but at $100K price range customers expecting such niceties should not be a surprise to anyone.

I'm not sure Tesla will ever have the ultra-lux vehicle the OP really wants. It seems like Tesla is going a different direction where they're mostly focused on autonomous driving technologies, and expanding into other vehicle classes.

Well, if they are actually autonomous by the time Taycan comes out, I will pick a Tesla hands down (and pay for FSD for my wife's car, which Elon assured is 100% FSD capable, FSD defined as having "summon across the country" capabilities as per Elon's own words). But, unless I can summon it 200 miles away (giving Elon a brake on not having self plugging snakes at each supercharger), with Tesla taking responsibility for any mistakes the car makes causing damage, Tesla autonomy is nothing but bunch of smoke and mirrors.

 

[whitex]

I imagine a person in his shoes is used to his opinions meaning something, and is likely why he posted. I say he without really knowing because it's almost always a male when someone spouts their opinion to strangers that they've never talked to before.

By your definition, there are no females on any internet forums, since almost any post is expressing an opinion to people you've never talked before. People can direct message people if they only want to address specific people they have talked to before. I don't think you have thought this through, but hey, you are entitled your opinion and to "spout it" (your words) to the world through public postings.

 

[GSP]

I can't imagine going back to an ICE car, even a nice one like an M5 or 911. I also can't imagine switching to an EV from another brand, without a supercharger network. No one else has a reliable network that is planned and built to support the traffic load. We even see complaints in this thread that Tesla's network is not expanding fast enough. I can't imagine what it would be like to use the Chademo or CCS chargers. Actually, the problem is that I can imagine what that would be like: a nightmare of an unplanned inadequate "network" of awkward, slow, and unreliable chargers.

If forced by dire circumstances, I would go back to a PHEV with strong EV specs and a gasoline range extender for long trips, like the Chevy Volt. I did love the two Volts that I used to own, and I consider the humble Volt vastly superior to the mighty M5 for my wants and needs.

GSP

 

[glide]

My energy comes from Hydro power. Tesla is reducing its cobalt and the little cobalt it currently uses comes from the Philippines and Canada. Also... even if you get your power from coal (why arent you using solar? don't you care the world is literally burning to the ground?) it's still cleaner than your disgusting BMW

I’m not an eco-warrior and did not buy my car to save the planet. Tesla did not throw in free solar panels with my purchase so that is why I do not have them.

And no; a Tesla is not cleaner than my disgusting BMW despite the fact that you want it to be. There is a very real argument to be made that based on current infrastructure, economies of scale, etc that it is simply not.

Some people on this forum literally sound like they are in a cult. Sorry. German cars have better interiors. Not sure how we wound up here from that point.

 

[xyeahtony]

I’m not an eco-warrior and did not buy my car to save the planet. Tesla did not throw in free solar panels with my purchase so that is why I do not have them.

And no; a Tesla is not cleaner than my disgusting BMW despite the fact that you want it to be. There is a very real argument to be made that based on current infrastructure, economies of scale, etc that it is simply not.

Some people on this forum literally sound like they are in a cult. Sorry. German cars have better interiors. Not sure how we wound up here from that point.

The first comment is incredibly arrogant. It's nice you don't care about the state of the planet and what it would be for your descendants.

Second comment, no evidence to back that up. Yes coal powers electricity in some places, but that same coal is also used to refine oil to gasoline. What do you think uses more energy? coal to driving or coal to gasoline to driving? adding an extra step always is less efficient.

Over the lifetime of ownership, an electric vehicle will emit less CO2 than a gasoline burning vehicle, especially since natural gas is now the #1 provider of electricity and has beaten coal (despite what trump would like you to believe). An American on average keeps their car around 8 years, there is most certainly al lifetime of emissions difference between EVs and ICE, that gives EVs an advantage, especially as the grid continues towards renewables.

Electric Car Myth Buster — Well-To-Wheel Emissions | CleanTechnica

"“These differences change as soon as the cars are driven. EVs are powered by electricity, which is generally a cleaner energy source than gasoline. Battery electric cars make up for their higher manufacturing emissions within eighteen months of driving — shorter range models can offset the extra emissions within 6 months — and continue to outperform gasoline cars until the end of their lives."

"The national average is 4,815 pounds of CO2-equivalent emissions for a typical EV per year as compared to the average gasoline-powered car which produces 11,435 pounds of CO2-equivalent emissions annually"

But good try trying to discredit the green impact of EVs, good try.

The irony is very clear. the OP could've chosen a Lexus, or any other number of luxury car manufacturers but made a point to mention "german cars." German car manufacturers have been known to cheat emissions standards. Maybe BMW hasn't been caught yet, but the irony is clear.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Im confused, OP says he bit the bullet on depreciation so he could get autopilot, then he goes back to a ICE car with no such features.

Uh-huh ever heard of BMW`s drive assistant plus?

enjoy paying for premium gas and not being able to preheat/precool your car...lol.

Preheating has been availble for more than a decade in BMWs, active pre-cooling is limited to those PHEVs afaik though.

 

[CinRedMan]

A most interesting post and follow-up comments.
Having come from driving a 2004 BMW 330Ci (convertible), I can appreciate the trade-off's between the two manufacturers.
My other car is a 2014 Lexus RX

Anyone who has been behind the wheel of a BMW would probably agree, totally a Driver's car. And, I really miss the feel of a convertible.

Tesla "fit and finish" both inside and out, doesn't come close. And, I never took the time to go drive cars comparable to the price of a Tesla. Perhaps, that was a huge mistake on my part!

But, IMHO, I believe Tesla is the EV leader and the "pros" far outweigh the "cons" for myself and driving habits.
I can't stand long road-trips without AP.
I absolutely love reiterative braking.
Software updates provide promise of future enhancements (12 to date), without having to visit the dealer.
I love the LOOKS of my MS...all the way around.
I use teslaFI for data logging and review; Not sure any of the ICE manufacturers provide such functionality...that would be sad to lose too. Every morning, I leave with a full tank (80%) charge and DO NOT miss heading to the gas station.
Service, to date, has been minimal, but an enjoyable experience.

 

[Destiny1701]

M5 0-60 is 2.8 seconds. I can live with that.

Will definitely miss the remote heating/cooling.

Guys not sure why everyone is bashing here? Mxb172 made a decision to change it up for the next while and as far I see never once said he’s written Tesla off completely. In fact I believe he still praises the company for its forward thinking and creativity. How can everyone expect ‘once a Tesla fanboy always a fanboy?’ Perhaps once MS goes through a significant update, he and others who have also left the Tesla world may return. Or they may not given competition entering 2020/2021. That’s the beauty of having freedom of choice.

He chose an M5 as he’s likely used to sub 3 sec
Performance. I happen to agree it’s addictive. And there aren’t many alternatives to the P100D in the same $ range with similar attributes ie. 5 seats, 4 doors. Leasing a new BMW with 4yrs no charge maintenance and warranty will not pose much of an issue repair wise.

I’m not condoning an ICE purchase over EV but I can understand wanting a change in life.

We just recently bought a 2018 Highlander Hybrid Ltd. instead of an MX. Why? It has cooling seats, panoramic roof, rear cross traffic alert, real blind spot monitoring, lane keep assist, stitched leather, text messages read to main screen, 3x 2.1amp ports up front/2 rear, 7 pass (2 captains chairs 2nd row and 3 at last row) soft smooth ride, 900km/tank, 8 oil changes included and Toyota reliability as well as top fit and finish. Not a single trim piece, rubber moulding or body panel out of alignment. ie. 99% on the road. 1/3 the price of a model X 100D.

It’s an ICE. And yes we have to fill up gas. But we bought it as it suits our lifestyle rather than 2 Tesla’s at this point. Point is, we didn’t write off another Tesla in the future but there is a lot to be said for other vehicles today.

Let the man enjoy his M5 and maybe in time he’ll revisit the EV world again...or not! Who are we to gasp with mouths open ‘how dare he!!’ Lol

 

[RGloverii]

After reading all four pages of this thread, I feel the need to chime in.

First, I think all of us need to do a better job of respecting one another. Yes, that sounds like a cliche, but in this case I think it needed to be said.

While we all have our inherent differences, we also have something in common: We are either Tesla owners or enthusiasts. The fact that we all own the same brand of car does NOT mean that we should expect to share the same set of opinions, or that only one opinion is 'right' and the others are automatically 'wrong'.

I only recently purchased my Model S 70D. I bought it fully knowing what I was getting myself into. I fully agree that Tesla vehicles are NOT "luxury" cars in the traditional sense. And I fully accept that. I also begrudgingly accept that certain features are missing. (No lighted sun visor? Really??)

I also own a fully loaded BMW i3. My opinion of that car? I think the attention to detail and fit/finish are absolutely top notch. Does it compare to a 750i? What about a M5? Of course not. Why not?? Because they are different market vehicles. I bought it fully knowing what it is, and what it isn't.

While I personally have ZERO plans to ever go back to ICE, I can understand and appreciate the desire of the OP. I'd love to have a true electric LUXURY vehicle. Not a PHEV, but a Tesla built like an S class. So I would never admonish someone else because they're sick of waiting for Tesla to up their game and build a vehicle that better meets their desires.

Hopefully, now that there is increased competition in the premium electric vehicle space, Tesla will change with the times. They can't get away with omitting features that are taken for granted in other modern cars for much longer.

But for the time being, I'm still enjoying my 70D.