Why I'm Not Opting for Full Self-Driving

[Eric S]

I'm inching closer to yielding to temptation and buying a 3 or S. Like all prospective new owners, I'm grappling with the FSD option, and have decided against.

I realize many of you sprang for FSD, so I hope I'm wrong! But here fwiw is my reasoning for saving the $10K. If I'm missing something, please let me know.

The FSD pitch hints that the X factor is regulatory approval. This implies that the tech is ready - or close to it. And while many quibble with Consumer Report's take, I don't know many Tesla fans who'd claim FSB is anywhere near ready to do anything close to self-driving anytime soon. Even cute narrow novelty components like Summon seem pretty dodgy.

As for regulatory approval, I can't see it, ever, outside major highways. Balance in the ongoing war of urban drivers vs pedestrians hinges on the threat of being run over by a multi-ton hunk of metal. If urban pedestrians can stop a car cold by stepping in front of it - or waving an umbrella in its path - pedestrians "win" and driving no longer works. Even more problematic, FSD will surely choose rear-end collision over running over, say, brazen kids on skateboards. You could try to ticket jaywalkers, but that's already proven uncontrollable. So I don't see FSD in cities without massive infrastructure tweaks (e.g. raised or lowered roadways).

So...the tech's not close, regulation (beyond highways) will remain a holdup for decades, and if there's an X factor, it's the fiscal ploy behind-scenes: Tesla doesn't declare FSD income normally, allowing them to hold back that income to pad balance sheets in lean times. I'm not suggesting FSD's entirely a scam, but the accounting trick creates powerful incentive to push hopeful (and carefully disclaimered) vaporware.

Unless I'm missing something essential, I can't see spending $10K (OTOH I'm not awash in money).

 

[Silicon Desert]

Ok, sounds like you should just wait until it has the performance and reliability that fits you, and then buy it later. For me, it is already a nice feature on my long trips, so clearly different people have different reasons to buy it or not buy it. But also, it sounds to be like you aren't understanding the current state of technology, but maybe I misunderstood your post.

 

[Eric S]

Ok, sounds like you should just wait until it has the performance and reliability that fits you, and then buy it later. For me, it is already a nice feature on my long trips, so clearly different people have different reasons to buy it or not buy it. But also, it sounds to be like you aren't understanding the current state of technology, but maybe I misunderstood your post.

I was hoping for answers exactly like yours! I'm not trying to thrust my opinion in people's faces, I'm looking for correction.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the tech! Which features only available via the $10K FSD buy-in do you find useful on long trips?

 

[LoudMusic]

I've owned my Tesla since the beginning of last August and put over 16,000 miles on it already. I do not have full self driving. We use autopilot sparingly because of its kooky behavior.

I can't justify spending $10,000 on beta software. I'd rather spend that on Tesla stock.

 

[Enginerd]

If urban pedestrians can stop a car cold by stepping in front of it - or waving an umbrella in its path - pedestrians "win" and driving no longer works.

You have an interesting slant on "winning" vs. "losing" between driving and pedestrians. I don't think normal folks are (1) smart enough to determine whether a car is smart enough to save their lives, nor (2) dumb enough to rely on that belief and assert their pedestrian dominance.

Having seen many FSD beta videos, I certainly don't think FSD will require "massive infrastructure tweaks"... they're specifically designing it so that it can operate in the current environment. Is it perfect? Certainly not. Can it handle all the weird edge cases? Not yet. But... is it "getting close"? Arguably yes, and advancing at a pretty good pace.

It's not prime time yet, and it's not for everyone, especially given the cost. But some of us are so intrigued by the development that we enjoy observing the sausage-making from the inside.

 

[Redbrick]

for me fsd purchase was mandatory requirement for a new car. it was between this, copilot, or hyundai's sensing tech. I drive over 60 mi everyday for work. autopilot and any automation is welcome to make my life easier. Right now the tech in this car does nearly 90% of my daily drive. Fsd should pickup the rest easily based on these online vids. now consider how much a chauffeur on staff would cost. I own stock too...but that's a separate discussion. Easy purchase.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

for me fsd purchase was mandatory requirement for a new car. it was between this, copilot, or hyundai's sensing tech. I drive over 60 mi everyday for work. autopilot and any automation is welcome to make my life easier. Right now the tech in this car does nearly 90% of my daily drive. Fsd should pickup the rest easily based on these online vids. now consider how much a chauffeur on staff would cost. I own stock too...but that's a separate discussion. Easy purchase.

Yep. I drive 25,000+ miles a year for work. I’m grateful for what FSD can do for me.

 

[theothertom]

I've owned my Tesla since the beginning of last August and put over 16,000 miles on it already. I do not have full self driving. We use autopilot sparingly because of its kooky behavior.

I can't justify spending $10,000 on beta software. I'd rather spend that on Tesla stock.

This mirrors my thinking. $10K is an awful lot to spend on beta software. And yes, Autopilot is kooky. Elon said he will make it subscription sometime this year, so I'll give it a try then.

 

[Alset Srotom]

Smart summon is horrible
FSD "Beta" is pure trash

That being said, I bought FSD at 5k and I LOVE NoA and use it daily.

By the way, several states already allow for fully autonomous driving. The "regulatory approval" schtick is just something to hide behind when Tesla can't deliver the product.

 

[Eric S]

I don't think normal folks are (1) smart enough to determine whether a car is smart enough to save their lives, nor (2) dumb enough to rely on that belief and assert their pedestrian dominance.

I love Savannah. But come to NYC, Chicago, SF, etc., where things are packed dense and everyone's in a big hurry and nobody likes to wait nor yield right of way. As-is, drivers are near homicidal maniacs and pedestrians basically recapitulate primitive society puberty rights, defying certain death.

If you could stop cars by extending an umbrella or a baby carriage or an arm into the roadway, there's no doubt pedestrians would do so. It wouldn't work. It gives way too much power to one side of the war. And it is a war.

 

[qdeathstar]

6k was ok, 7k was pushing it, but i’m not pissing way 10k on a dream.

 

[boonedocks]

Ordered our 5th Tesla 01/01/21. Three of our cars we pre-paid for FSD and we are not buying into it again.

With no willingness to transfer any portion of it towards future purchases and the little that it actually does over the included Autopilot I will hold off and MAYBE go the monthly subscription route if & when it is available.

Self parking, red light / stop sign recognition, NOA / AutoLaneChange are of nothing near $10k value at this point.

On my daily ~100 mile commute the included AutoPilot is 99% all I am using as of now even on my current FSD car.

Lie to me once shame on you, lie to me a 2nd and 3rd time....shame on me....not biting that a 4th time.

3 months maybe 6 months definitely....and 3+ years later...well you get the picture

 

[LoudMusic]

Ordered our 5th Tesla 01/01/21. Three of our cars we pre-paid for FSD and we are not buying into it again.

With no willingness to transfer any portion of it towards future purchases and the little that it actually does over the included Autopilot I will hold off and MAYBE go the monthly subscription route if & when it is available.

Self parking, red light / stop sign recognition, NOA / AutoLaneChange are of nothing near $10k value at this point.

On my daily ~100 mile commute the included AutoPilot is 99% all I am using as of now even on my current FSD car.

Lie to me once shame on you, lie to me a 2nd and 3rd time....shame on me....not biting that a 4th time.

3 months maybe 6 months definitely....and 3+ years later...well you get the picture

But you've bought 5 of their cars? Stockholm Syndrome?

 

[mikes_fsd]

I was hoping for answers exactly like yours! I'm not trying to thrust my opinion in people's faces, I'm looking for correction.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the tech! Which features only available via the $10K FSD buy-in do you find useful on long trips?

In getting our Model Y - the only feature of the car we did not have to haggle/discuss is the FSD option.
But we also had AP1 on our first Tesla and while nowhere near what new hardware can do, I saw clear improvements in functionality in AP1.
I will second @Silicon Desert "for me, it is already a nice feature"

 

[Silicon Desert]

I was hoping for answers exactly like yours! I'm not trying to thrust my opinion in people's faces, I'm looking for correction.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the tech! Which features only available via the $10K FSD buy-in do you find useful on long trips?

Good question. And I understood the sincere intent of your original post. For me, Nav on Autopilot is probably the feature I like most. Often I am traveling on unfamiliar interstate roads that transition to other roads. It has handled some of the more confusing ones seamlessly whereas in the past, I sometimes took the wrong turn without it and end up wasting extra time and mileage getting back on to the right road. However, some people report it to be flaky and unpredictable on some roads. That has not been the case for me in traveling back and forth across the USA on multiple trips. There are rare hiccups that are minor to me, but again, some people seem to have trouble. Who knows, likely due to different software versions on different roads, etc.

I have compared it to using my iPhone navigation and with an expensive GPS unit. The difference is I feel more comfortable having the car making the decision on turns (with me watching closely) rather than having a GPS unit tell me what to do, especially when the separate GPS unit is wrong on occasion.

I don't use summon. To me, it is not a valuable feature yet, though some folks really like it for various reasons.

Lastly there have been two recent occasions (in last year) where the car suddenly made a maneuver that I thought was unsafe at the time, but when reviewing the camera footage later, I would see it made the right move. In one case, a women merging into my lane in a blind spot while on a cell phone. She could have hit me. Did it save me from an accident? I will never know. It sure was a close call.

So that is just my personal view. Your mileage varies And to just say that for me $10K is not a lot of money at all. To others, sure, that price isn't worth the features at this time. Fortunately, things slowly get better and more reliable. Sometimes a software update is two steps forward and one step back as you will note from other postings. Good luck on your future decision.

 

[powertoold]

Unless you're awash in money or like to play with technology, I don't think the $10k FSD option is worth it.

I wish they'd offer automatic lane change for $2k. For me, this is currently the best part of the FSD package.

The NoA feature is constantly improving though, so in a few months, it might be more worth it, but by then, they might increase the price, lol.

 

[2101Guy]

I have a Model S with FSD.
My Wife has a Model Y with basic free Autopilot.

As of right now, the better value by FAR...is the basic free.

 

[Eric S]

Ok, thanks, folks. I've read up some on NoA, and, frankly, I'd rather take the wrong lane and backtrack if I occasionally miss an exit (adding maybe 40 minutes of needless driving per year) rather than pay $10K to let the car direct it - especially given reports, above, that even the car may get it wrong!

I used to be poor and am now comfortable (though not super rich), so I've been learning to prioritize unnecessary luxuries. For example, I always figured I'd travel business class if I could afford it, but I still can't bring myself to pay a grand or more for a slightly more comfortable seat for a 2 or 3 hour trip. It just doesn't make sense to me.

NoA seems the same. Kinda cool, undoubtedly useful, but (to me) obscenely far up the luxury curve of declining result. Maybe if I often drove in new places under time pressure, or if driving in unfamiliar places stressed me out, I'd prioritize it higher.

I guess my initial feeling was right: the free autopilot provides 75% of what I need, and the remainder isn't anywhere near worth $10k.

That said, I still have my long-term fantasy. In a couple decades when I'm in my 80s and non-spry, and am able to go to sleep in my camper and wake up 300 miles away, idling 10 feet from the door of a carefully selected breakfast cafe, and then be chauffeured to museums and other sites (with the car parking itself out in the boonies for pennies), I'd absolutely pay $100K for that functionality....and feel like the luckiest old guy who ever lived. Here's hoping!

 

[Missile Toad]

I'm waiting for Tesla to correctly write their manual as a signal that they have the institutional rigor to write safe software.

 

[Missile Toad]

To illustrate my last remark:

In every contract that Van Halen signed when Roth was lead singer, they had a clause that said they needed "X" amount of bowls of M&Ms backstage, but no brown ones.

If there were any brown M&Ms, there would be huge penalties levied against the arena/venue, and even the potential of canceling the show. People thought Roth was just hard to work with (which he may have been!), but the reason he did this wasn't to be a pain.

Van Halen shows were legendary for pyrotechnics, and tons of bells and whistles. The attention to detail had to be perfect or else the show would be terrible or someone could get seriously hurt. The feelings of the band were that if the venue couldn't read and execute every detail in the contract to the Nth degree, then they might missing something really important during the show.​

The Significance of Van Halen's Brown M&Ms Rule