70,000 Mi on a Model S 2016 about 1/2 on interstate highways, and those two locations I would NOT use autopilot. The lanes are not clear and not a divided highway with road markings very suspect. I take control with construction, new line painting, tight left or right Jersey barriers or complex interchanges. The car will seem to learn or identify roads the more often you use it on the same stretch. If you are new to it please be quick to take control. Road gremlins, I call them, can occur with odd shadows, passing under bridges in bright sun, or another,heat mirages on open hot roads. These can cause a quick hard braking. The autopilot thinks there is an obstacle. Fog or very heavy rain can also foul the input of the sensors. For the first 1000 miles test what it can do and be alert. After about 1-2 K miles it will be second nature.
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Why is Autopilot always trying to Kill me?
- Thread starter Travelhead
- Start date
Love all the responses about RTM, system is only beta, don't pay attention to the YT influencers, Tesla doesn't advertise the system as anything but driver assist. But they still have this 2016 video on their website without any real cautions or explanations that this isn't the product you are getting when you buy the 2019 FSD version of auto-pilot:
Tesla Self-Driving Demonstration
The video literally breaks every guideline in the manual on using auto-pilot. What are buyers supposed to expect? Especially when they get almost zero ability to interact with knowledgeable sales people prior to purchase and very little systems explanation upon delivery. I get more time at an Apple store when I shop for and purchase a $700 phone than at a Tesla store when I shop for a $50,000 vehicle.
Tesla Self-Driving Demonstration
The video literally breaks every guideline in the manual on using auto-pilot. What are buyers supposed to expect? Especially when they get almost zero ability to interact with knowledgeable sales people prior to purchase and very little systems explanation upon delivery. I get more time at an Apple store when I shop for and purchase a $700 phone than at a Tesla store when I shop for a $50,000 vehicle.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I agree that an average consumer can be mislead by the demonstration but still, it is a demonstration, not a real test done by a third party like Consumer Reports after all.
I assume that consumers just click to order and don't bother to read what they just clicked.
If they do on the Autopilot page they would understand that the features are contingent on a few factors and if those are not met, they should understand that they got nothing!
"The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
Consumers should understand that paying on this order page doesn't get the promised autonomous and the reason is because it's present time, not future time just yet.
"The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience,..."
Consumers should understand that paying on this order page doesn't mean you get the features unless they pass reliability. If the reliability is not achieved, then they don't get the feature.
"as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions."
Good luck on fulfilling this bureaucratic nightmare. Consumers should understand that they can pay good money for the feature but if the law is lagging behind, there's no obligation for Tesla to fulfill the feature! Consumers will then need to vote for a Tesla-friendly politician to hurry up the laws.
"As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."
Notice the word "evolve". It's not a final product. There's no promise when the process of evolution will be finished.
Just because consumers can be mislead, it doesn't help if consumers don't read the footnote!
That's the problem with today's generation. Consumers might think that they do not need to read because all the learnings are osmosis and magically transferred to their brain seamlessly. That might happen in the future but for now, we still have to read.
Not necessarily just the manual but also, whatever we click on the virtual button on the consent screens in our cars:
It's very clear that I can count that there are 3 words spelling "Beta" below:
On this Autosteer screen below: There's a consent with 4 repeating words "Beta":
Also, the scenario showing traffic lights in this thread is a direct violation of its terms of service because the consent specifically says "no cross-traffic".
It's about time to stop singing to the tune of victimhood while purposefully violating Tesla's terms of service.
Again, who sits in the car and reads the manual **before** they buy the car?
Tam
Well-Known Member
True! No question about it.
However, today's legal system is still emphasizing on documentation.
If consumers don't read, they might miss out on something important.
f205v
Member
Before they buy any appliance at all!
TBH, you are usually given access to the manual of any appliance only AFTER you have purchased it.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Until Autopilot is declared by Tesla out of Beta, anyone and everyone who uses is it is a beta tester, an experimental feature tester, who assumes all the risks associated with experimental feature - yes, including the risk it will kill you as few, such as Walter Huang, have sadly found out (and Tesla was quick to point out it was a beta feature). Heck, everyone has to agree to this in order to even enable Autopilot. Why are people surprised? Just because you pay to be a beta tester, it doesn't change the fact it's beta, which means not finished, not fully reliable, and could completely fail at any time.
OP has a choice: He can get upset, complain about those few edge use cases where AP is iffy, and stop using a great feature. His loss.
Or realize that this is a partnership between man and machine. You do your part and the machine will do its part and it will be an amazing highly rewarding partnership. In fact it is true for almost anything - be it riding a horse,or riding a bicycle, or piloting a plane, or driving a dumb ICE car, or driving a Tesla on AP.
Or realize that this is a partnership between man and machine. You do your part and the machine will do its part and it will be an amazing highly rewarding partnership. In fact it is true for almost anything - be it riding a horse,or riding a bicycle, or piloting a plane, or driving a dumb ICE car, or driving a Tesla on AP.
Holy crap, does anyone here think that little of their life that they are not going to read up on AP and use it cautiously at first while they learn what it can do and how to best use it? Seriously? I cannot believe we are even having this discussion. "The big bad car company enticed me to use software that could kill me". Really? Driving a car can kill you. And others. Letting a car drive itself can kill you. And others. Get a grip. Take responsibility.
Wol747
Active Member
I find it strange that we are even *having* conversations like this, to tell the truth.
Those of us who have driven large aircraft with sophisticated automatics will know just how much training and practice goes into making the operation safe when it involves autoland systems.It's not the "press a button and it lands" part, it's the myriad failure cases, most of which themselves have multiple responses depending on the phase of the approach/landing they occur, which require the intimate knowledge and practice.
It's arguable that automatics driving a car through busy traffic, with varying road conditions and often poorly/incorrectly marked obstructions is much more challenging than kissing the concrete of a 3000m long runway with all the procedures and backup systems in place.
I don't think we will see true FSD, on ordinary roads, in my lifetime if at all. BY FSD I mean cars that have no manual controls or ones that are never expected to be used.
The problem with the OP (to my mind), is that it stokes the flames of the “FSD is deadly and should be banned!” crowd. Anyone remember when airbags were new? There were a few gruesome (and sad) deaths caused by them .. and the usual hysterical headlines screaming out about this. People were running around asking for them to be disconnected/disabled/banned. Of course, these people forgot about the many many lives SAVED by airbags. Fortunately more sober discussion prevailed, and airbags were retained, but refined to try to avoid the malfunctions.
That’s where we are going through with FSD (and it is only just beginning). Yes, FSD has caused some problems for people (even when driven as Tesla requires). Should we then abandon it? Should we demand perfection before we deploy FSD? Good luck, you will wait forever. What we need is for FSD, when used as per directions, to be MORE SAFE than the average human driver. And let’s face it that’s a pretty low bar. Have Tesla reached that? I don’t know, they claimed so a while back, but I’d like to see some more (unbiased, scientific) research first. Is it likely to reach that? Heck yes .. I don’t know about you, but (subjectively) I feel less scared when NOA/AP is driving me than I am with MANY of my acquaintances driving.
—Tim
That’s where we are going through with FSD (and it is only just beginning). Yes, FSD has caused some problems for people (even when driven as Tesla requires). Should we then abandon it? Should we demand perfection before we deploy FSD? Good luck, you will wait forever. What we need is for FSD, when used as per directions, to be MORE SAFE than the average human driver. And let’s face it that’s a pretty low bar. Have Tesla reached that? I don’t know, they claimed so a while back, but I’d like to see some more (unbiased, scientific) research first. Is it likely to reach that? Heck yes .. I don’t know about you, but (subjectively) I feel less scared when NOA/AP is driving me than I am with MANY of my acquaintances driving.
—Tim
I'm not going to name names, but I coincidentally had a 20 minute conversation yesterday with one of the former top executives at Tesla (I'm not talking about a sales guy, I'm talking about a guy that was high, high up in the ranks!). I mentioned the details of this thread, and he agreed with me that Tesla needs to do a better job explaining autopilot, they need to change their marketing materials, and they should also rebrand 'autopilot' to another name. So there you go people!
Brian's ReX
Member
Brian's ReX
Member
I know I'll kick myself for not getting this reference... but... ?
Youngsters, huh?
Why is the Autopilot Called “George”? (Two Prevailing Theories) | AirplaneAcademy.com
Wol747
Active Member
It's certainly a very oldfashioned moniker! In 35 years flying I never once heard the a/p called anything but "autopilot" or ****ing thing.
