Why is FSD not transferable to your next Tesla?

[jeremymc7]

The other thing to consider doing is original owner might remove from their account too.

I left my old Tesla on my account to see what happened. After several months I got email from Tesla it was removed from my account. Checking My Tesla account it was indeed gone as active and removed from my app too.

 

[gearchruncher]

Do you think there is any chance Tesla might remove FSD if I get the ownership transferred to me and add the car in my account app?

No. There is no chance of this, and if it happened, it would be illegal (first sale doctrine).

There have been a few mistaken cases where this has happened, but in every case Tesla owned the car at some point between the first and second owners. Any owner of the car is allowed to modify it how they want, but not the original seller if it is not in their legal possession.

Enjoy your new car!

 

[umamahesh9999]

I just called the tesla customer service. They said the FSD will be removed if the car ever touched Tesla inventory or wholesale inventory.
If the car is purchased from original owner directly, then it is transferable. If it is purchased from a dealer (wholesale inventory), then it is not transferable, even though it has never touched tesla inventory.
This means that I will not get the FSD. Is this in line with your understanding?

 

[qdeathstar]

Tesla may remove the full self driving.

 

[gearchruncher]

I just called the tesla customer service. They said the FSD will be removed if the car ever touched Tesla inventory or wholesale inventory.
If the car is purchased from original owner directly, then it is transferable. If it is purchased from a dealer (wholesale inventory), then it is not transferable, even though it has never touched tesla inventory.
This means that I will not get the FSD. Is this in line with your understanding?

There is no way it is legal for Tesla to remove a feature from a car remotely, when they do not currently own the car, just because the car exchanged legal owners. Show us where in the purchase contract it says they will do this or are allowed to. There is no difference between a private individual and a dealer in the eyes of Tesla- they are both private owners of the vehicle. In most cases the legal difference is just that a dealer does not have to title the vehicle during their ownership.
If this was legal, every bookseller and DVD maker in the world would say "you can read this book, but if you give it to a library, it's no longer legal."

Pinging our local lawyer - @rxlawdude

 

[MP3Mike]

There is no way it is legal for Tesla to remove a feature from a car remotely, when they do not currently own the car, just because the car exchanged legal owners. Show us where in the purchase contract it says they will do this or are allowed to.

The non-transferrable free Supercharging is an example, but that was clearly stated as part of the purchase. Eliminating the ability to purchase the ESA, and invalidating an existing one, if the car goes through a third-party dealer is another example. (Even when Tesla never has ownership.)

But I'm not aware of anything that would, legally, allow Tesla to remove EAP/FSD from a vehicle that didn't have the ownership pass through them.

 

[TSteve]

I just called the tesla customer service. They said the FSD will be removed if the car ever touched Tesla inventory or wholesale inventory.
If the car is purchased from original owner directly, then it is transferable. If it is purchased from a dealer (wholesale inventory), then it is not transferable, even though it has never touched tesla inventory.
This means that I will not get the FSD. Is this in line with your understanding?

I purchased my M3 from a dealer and the FSD was not removed. I took ownership over two months ago and have installed several updates and have even had it in for service.

 

[umamahesh9999]

I purchased my M3 from a dealer and the FSD was not removed. I took ownership over two months ago and have installed several updates and have even had it in for service.

Hi Steve
Did you do this step when you transferred ownership to your name? I haven't seen this before. Looks new.

 

[TSteve]

Hi Steve
Did you do this step when you transferred ownership to your name? I haven't seen this before. Looks new.
View attachment 708965View attachment 708965

I did not, but I believe the dealership did because when I took possession the car was already named "Steve's M3" or something along those lines. I'm a little embarrassed to say that I don't recall exactly how it was added to my account.

 

[gearchruncher]

Did you do this step when you transferred ownership to your name? I haven't seen this before. Looks new.

Rename car has been there since at least 2016. It has nothing to do with who owns it. I've renamed my car multiple times without legal ownership changing.

The non-transferrable free Supercharging is an example, but that was clearly stated as part of the purchase. Eliminating the ability to purchase the ESA, and invalidating an existing one, if the car goes through a third-party dealer is another example. (Even when Tesla never has ownership.)

Good examples, which as you say both make it explicit of the limits as part of the "purchase". Both Supercharging and ESA are external services, not features of a car, so the terms of that service are that they are only available when that vehicle is owned by a specific person. Not being able to buy the ESA is a whole different thing, nobody ever has to sell you something (I know you were just pointing it out).

The terms of FSD is that they are for a VIN, not a VIN owned by a named person, and famously, cannot be transferred to a different car.
Who would pay $10K for a FSD if the terms were that all the value evaporated if you sold your car!?

 

[jeremymc7]

The terms of FSD is that they are for a VIN, not a VIN owned by a named person, and famously, cannot be transferred to a different car.
Who would pay $10K for a FSD if the terms were that all the value evaporated if you sold your car!?

Is FSD purchased with the car, embedded in the VIN ?

 

[TSteve]

Rename car has been there since at least 2016. It has nothing to do with who owns it. I've renamed my car multiple times without legal ownership changing.


Good examples, which as you say both make it explicit of the limits as part of the "purchase". Both Supercharging and ESA are external services, not features of a car, so the terms of that service are that they are only available when that vehicle is owned by a specific person. Not being able to buy the ESA is a whole different thing, nobody ever has to sell you something (I know you were just pointing it out).

The terms of FSD is that they are for a VIN, not a VIN owned by a named person, and famously, cannot be transferred to a different car.
Who would pay $10K for a FSD if the terms were that all the value evaporated if you sold your car!?

Does transfer in the Tesla app/system even count as legal ownership transfer? I doubt the DMV cares one bit about what happens in Tesla's systems.

Is FSD embedded in the VIN ?

As far as I've learned, it is not. This is probably because it can be purchased after sale.

 

[gearchruncher]

This is probably because it can be purchased after sale.

No, this is because almost no options on any cars are embedded in the VIN. It's major model and drivetrain details, safety equipment, and location of manufacture. You can't tell the color of a car from the VIN, much less if you have a white interior or what wheels the car was purchased with.

There are some sites that can look up build sheets for specific cars based on the VIN, but the VIN itself does not contain this information, it's in a secondary database.

Tesla VIN structure:

Position	Description	Value
1-3	Manufacturer	5YJ = Tesla, Inc.
4	Make	S = Model S
5	Body Type	A = 5 Door Hatchback LHD (Left-Hand Drive)
6	Restraint System	1 = Manual Type 2 Seat Belts (Front, Rear*3) With Front Airbags, PODS, Side Inflatable Restraints, Knee Airbags (Front)
7	Battery Type	E = Lithium-Ion Battery - Electric
8	Motor/Drive Unit	4 = Performance Dual Motor - Three Phase A/C Induction (only after 1-Aug-2015)
9	Check Character	1
10	Model Year	F = 2015
11	Location of Manufacture	F = Fremont, CA, USA
12	Serial #, 100,000s digit	1
13-17	Serial Number Digits	56789

 

[drtimhill]

If it is purchased from a dealer (wholesale inventory), then it is not transferable, even though it has never touched tesla inventory.

That is untrue, and keeps confusing people. As others have noted, Tesla only remove features (and, technically, could add features if they wanted to) while they are (transient) owners of the car. If a dealer buy a Tesla privately from an individual and then directly resells it, the new owner will get the case as-is will all the original owners features (barring those that were non-transferable such as free supercharging for some).

 

[DrDabbles]

Great, we now have someone with a record of Tesla admitting to stealing from people. Thanks for the work, thanks for the confirmation, now someone go take legal action.

 

[umamahesh9999]

Its unfortunate that different customer service reps at Tesla provide different answers and we as owners need to go through this.
I just transferred the ownership of car to my name and the FSD is still there.
I am not sure how long do they typically take if they do remove it, so fingers crossed that it stays

 

[omyshell]

File a class action lawsuit.

That's about all you can do.

Everything else is just a discussion about something that we otherwise have no influence over. It's been talked to death over and over as is.

In similar terms every complains about having to pay so much to either "turn on" software features or purchase on new cars; because (for the most part) Tesla includes all the hardware in each car.

IE why do I have to pay so much for performance boost, why do I have to repurchase FSD, why do I have to pay to turn on rear seat heaters.

If Tesla did it different and didn't include the hardware and it had to be paid and installed at the factory; then no one would complain because the price would be the price and you typically can't move a feature part from an older car to another car due to cost, complexity, and compatibility between Model years.

Tesla does it different, but it's still a similar concept, people get hung up the fact that "it's just a software flag".

I guess I'm old-fashioned. I put faith in Mr. Musk's word and his product by believing what he said. It is sad we must rely on class-action lawsuits to be treated with the same degree of respect and support we as his customers have given him. We had his back in his venture to bring electric vehicles mainstream, he should have ours and make good on his promises in the most equitable way possible. I think it is a small thing to ask for him to make good on his word, either refund the money people spent to buy the FSD they've been unable to utilize to date or allow FSD to transfer to the individual's next vehicle where hopefully they will be able to use it.

There is profit and there is greed, what I see in this situation is greed. I hope Mr. Musk will do the right thing without a Class Action Lawsuit, but my faith in this happening grows dim. I am sad because for once I'd like to see powerful people in powerful places do the right thing because it is "The Right Thing" not because a lawsuit forced them. When did it become a mandate to sue people to force them to have integrity? Shouldn't this be something we all strive to have? I realize this is naive, but I try to have hope that Mr. Musk can remember what it was like when he didn't have an endless flow of cash and relied on others to be fair in their dealings with him so that he can be fair in his dealings with us.

 

[Ramphex]

I guess I'm old-fashioned. I put faith in Mr. Musk's word and his product by believing what he said. It is sad we must rely on class-action lawsuits to be treated with the same degree of respect and support we as his customers have given him. We had his back in his venture to bring electric vehicles mainstream, he should have ours and make good on his promises in the most equitable way possible. I think it is a small thing to ask for him to make good on his word, either refund the money people spent to buy the FSD they've been unable to utilize to date or allow FSD to transfer to the individual's next vehicle where hopefully they will be able to use it.

There is profit and there is greed, what I see in this situation is greed. I hope Mr. Musk will do the right thing without a Class Action Lawsuit, but my faith in this happening grows dim. I am sad because for once I'd like to see powerful people in powerful places do the right thing because it is "The Right Thing" not because a lawsuit forced them. When did it become a mandate to sue people to force them to have integrity? Shouldn't this be something we all strive to have? I realize this is naive, but I try to have hope that Mr. Musk can remember what it was like when he didn't have an endless flow of cash and relied on others to be fair in their dealings with him so that he can be fair in his dealings with us.

agreed

 

[drtimhill]

I guess I'm old-fashioned. I put faith in Mr. Musk's word and his product by believing what he said. It is sad we must rely on class-action lawsuits to be treated with the same degree of respect and support we as his customers have given him. We had his back in his venture to bring electric vehicles mainstream, he should have ours and make good on his promises in the most equitable way possible. I think it is a small thing to ask for him to make good on his word, either refund the money people spent to buy the FSD they've been unable to utilize to date or allow FSD to transfer to the individual's next vehicle where hopefully they will be able to use it.

There is profit and there is greed, what I see in this situation is greed. I hope Mr. Musk will do the right thing without a Class Action Lawsuit, but my faith in this happening grows dim. I am sad because for once I'd like to see powerful people in powerful places do the right thing because it is "The Right Thing" not because a lawsuit forced them. When did it become a mandate to sue people to force them to have integrity? Shouldn't this be something we all strive to have? I realize this is naive, but I try to have hope that Mr. Musk can remember what it was like when he didn't have an endless flow of cash and relied on others to be fair in their dealings with him so that he can be fair in his dealings with us.

There is certainly no harm is suggesting this (tweet Elon) .. though you would beed to be careful how you phrase it of course (to have the desired effect). And no, I don't think you are being naive, I think you are being honest and sensible.

 

[Ramphex]

I think Elon knows how his company works lol