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Why is Navigation so bad?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by OTARon, May 22, 2019.

  1. OTARon

    OTARon Member

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    I love how on trips the navigation will tell me go here to the next super charger and all, but here is a list of things I don't like, and don't know who or how to tell Tesla

    a. I want way points in trips. Las Vegas To Washington State, via Eureka CA not I5 for example we don't always want the fastest most direct route.
    2. When I'm driving with using Nav, I want the map to not change its orientation or range as I drive. I like to set my distance say 3/4 of a mile distance not 40 miles so I can read street names. let me use the 17". I set my zoom, stop resetting it.
    iii. How about traffic data be accurate, I will see a road that is Orange but there is no traffic on it. is that historic data "last Tuesday at 4pm traffic was busy there"
    4. Could you do something about how my map randomly spins “round, round, baby like a record” on the big and little screen!!

    This is my list so far, I am sure there is more but so far this is it.
     
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  2. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    1. Waypoints have been requested since the Model S was introduced, and we're still waiting.
    2. Route customization (allowing the driver to select a different route) is also missing, though adding waypoints can fix that. With NOAP, it will be very persistent in trying to get you to change lanes and move over to the exit when you decide to ignore the planned route - and then will be annoying as it tries to get you to turnaround to get back to the planned route, before it gives up and completely re-routes you. I've started turning off NOAP (using the button on the navigation display) when I'm going to ignore the routing - and eventually the software will figure out the route I want, when I can turn NOAP back on.
    3. There are 3 map settings - follow route, up is north, and vehicle front is up. Follow route will maintain up is north and dynamically rescale as you get closer to our destination. Up is north will not spin the display - it will always have up is north with the vehicle icon turning as the vehicle changes orientation; the display will change scale when shifting between highway and non-highway speeds. Vehicle is up is like up is north, except rotates the display. For short trips, I'll use follow route mode. For longer trips, I'll usually shift to up is north display, at the scaling I want. I usually don't use vehicle is up during routing, since the dashboard display does that.
    4. Traffic data appears to be refreshed every few minutes. Tesla''s decision to hide the green lines for roads with normally moving traffic is controversial, because it doesn't distinguish between roads with normally moving traffic and roads lacking any traffic data. It's possible the cloud server doing the navigation routing may have traffic data that is more up-to-date than the onboard map.
    Musk indicated they would continue to make improvements to the navigation software when they upgraded from the original navigation system to the current open source system. Haven't seen that yet... Though since the navigation software will be used by FSD, we should expect some improvements in the next 12-18 months.
     
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  3. dark cloud

    dark cloud Active Member

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    Okay, a couple of ways to improve it, but I disagree with the title: navigation is definitely not bad, it works pretty darn good. If you insist on waypoints try another option such as a better route planner

    But yes, WAYPOINTS PLEASE TESLA!
     
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  4. murphyS90D

    murphyS90D Member

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    The current mapping system is very bad.

    I have had two instances where the route to the destination was wrong. The first one took me up a dirt road and told me to make a left turn where there was no road, just a fence. I was a mile past where I should have turned. This was out in the country, where cell signals are spotty, in central Virginia.

    The second one almost got me to the destination. It turned one road too soon and stopped in the middle of a turn ramp. This was in an area, in PA, that has been developed for at least 100 years and there is no problem with cell signals.

    If you have never been to your destination before, allow at least an extra hour to get there.

    I get that open source is cheaper than Garmin. However if it doesn't work it is useless.

    I complained about the first one to Tesla and they sent me a thank you for helping to update the open source map. If they are depending on people who get misdirected to update the open source map it will take 50 years to get it right.

    Leaving Garmin for open source was, IMHO, a stupid decision.
     
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  5. OTARon

    OTARon Member

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    The main issues I have is when I zoom in (pinch my map) to get the map to a distance i like it automatically changes it back to some set distance, long range on highways 10-15 miles away and 4-5 miles while driving in cities. If i am in a city I am not familiar with, i am constantly "pinching" my map to see where I am, then having it zoom back out, NO other GPS I have ever owned did that! THAT is my biggest complaint! IF there is a way to get it to stop, I have not found it. Such a big screen and large map, let me use it.
     
  6. SoCal Buzz

    SoCal Buzz Supporting Member

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    Use the +/- buttons instead of pinching and the zoom level will stick, when also using the North or direction of travel orientations. The full route view obviously will auto-zoom regardless.
     
  7. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I've been using the Nav system for over six years now, and it's really pretty good now that you can select no toll roads. If you want a bad system, try Toyota's, it often routes you thousands of miles out of the way or sends you in block circling loops. I can't say that Tesla's system has ever sent me to a wrong place, although sometimes it doesn't pick the route to the destination the same as I would. In a few cases it has routed me around major traffic problems that would have taken hours to get through. It's not perfect, but I'd rate it above average. Too bad about the UI in V9 though.
     
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  8. AustinP

    AustinP Member

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    I also totally disagree with the title.
    The nav is great and the best around.
    It sure can be improved and waypoina t would be nice. But not essential. Nothing prevents you to plan your route and chose as destination the next stop you want in the nav.
    And indeed if you want to plan, you can do it with abetterrouteplanner.com

    I find it not constructive such arbitrary judgement totally unbalanced.
    In my previous Audi there was waypoint. But the system was really poor at routing, obsolete out of the box and of course not updating unless you paid for a 2 years old outdated update. And the waypoints turned out cumbersome and I dropped using them.

    Please be more mindful before judging.
    I’m sure Tesla people are reading and this is not constructive.

    Feedback to Tesla: [email protected]
     
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  9. OTARon

    OTARon Member

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    I liked the title for it got peoples attention, I want people to have a discussion on the good, bad and ugly. the feedback is a wild suggestion, for I have had my car 3 months, I made 2 suggestions before delivery and 3 since. I have had a canned response to all of them. 'thank you for your consideration, you suggestion will be forwarded to the proper department for due consideration" I am sure the people who took 2 weeks to work out that response think that will hold us over. the Nav in my 2016 Subaru outback worked better, easier and more responsive than Tesla's I have made two trips in my Tesla so far over 1500 miles each. Its a lot harder to plan a trip in a Tesla then a gas car but to add in the fact I have to break up my trip into 4 tinny segments because the nav wants to use on rout only. I miss getting 2 or 3 suggested routs from my old systems. AND no WAZE support is nuts too, and yes i used [email protected] for that before I even had my car delivered.
    People says "Tesla review these forums too" if so, I say send me a PM but lets be honest, since they didn't call me for my service appointment or for deliver of my car, why would they call me to discuss how to make my Navigation operate better?
     
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  10. PhaseWhite

    PhaseWhite Member

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    First, navigation is not bad. Tesla's navigation is very good, and way better then any other OEM developed solution.

    I recall that the original V9 early release candidates had the ability to add waypoints but that feature did not make it into the final release. I suspect there were some bugs that weren't easy to fix. But the fact that it was there shows Tesla is aware of this feedback so there's hope that they will merge that feature back in the future.
     
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  11. darxsys

    darxsys Member

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    The fact that it’s better than other OEM systems, doesn’t mean it’s good. In my experience it’s just okay. A few days ago it made me make a completely wrong turn and arrive to a totally wrong address. I had to switch to Google Maps on my phone to figure out where exactly to go. Overall it works fine. But I wouldn’t say it’s very good.
     
  12. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    The quality of the routing relies on accurate data - roads, speed limits and traffic situations (slow traffic, closed intersections, …).

    The Gen 1 Nav (based on Garmin/Navigon) had troubles primarily because the road data was up to 2 years old, missing changes made from recent road construction.

    The Gen 2 Nav (based on open source) is better because routing is normally done on a cloud server, that should have relatively up-to-date data. But the onboard systems are still relying on stored data - which will always be out-of-date; hopefully Tesla is updating this information more frequently - once a year is for too long to wait if the data is used for AP/FSD.

    The current process for updating the onboard data is based on the same model used for the early navigation systems which were optical disk based and required replacing the optical disks every year or so. When navigation systems started having hard disks, those systems were updated annually using data stored on optical disks or transferred from a computer.

    Even though Tesla vehicles are (almost) always connected to the Internet, Tesla is using the same model - and instead of loading from optical disks or a local computer, they push the entire map database over the internet.

    Since 99% of the data in that database will likely never be used - for areas that are outside of the normal region the vehicle will travel during a day - Tesla is wasting a huge amount of bandwidth sending data to vehicles that will never be used. And because the size of the onboard database is so large (GB), they can't afford to send that data to each vehicle very often - which causes the onboard database to be almost guaranteed to be obsolete.

    There is another way to do this...

    When the vehicle is manufactured - Tesla can install the entire database on the vehicle prior to delivery (at the factory).

    After that, instead of updating the entire database annually or ever few months, Tesla can send more frequent updates whenever data within driving range (200 miles?) is changed. And if they were clever enough in managing that information, they could send a "differences" update that would only send the portion of that data that has changed since the previous update.

    Using this technique, Tesla may be able to keep all vehicles completely up-to-date for the nearby area, sending much smaller incremental updates nightly.

    And, when a vehicle begins to move out of the local area, Tesla could send a small update that would contain up-to-date data for the new area.

    Since FSD really needs to have up-to-date and accurate road data, and internet connectivity cannot be guaranteed during a drive - an incremental approach to keeping the onboard data up-to-date could be very useful.
     
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  13. Mike Robinson

    Mike Robinson Member

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    I've had incorrect directions in Google Maps and Apple Maps also. Sadly, none of the mapping programs are perfect :/
     
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  14. GlmnAlyAirCar

    GlmnAlyAirCar Active Member

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    I run Tesla nav and Waze side-by-side. Generally they provide identical routes and estimates are the same within a minute or so.

    Sometimes the routes do differ. If Tesla is showing an earlier arrival time, and I decide to follow that route, Waze will update (after I depart its route) and then provide me the same, earlier arrival time as Tesla. Tesla nearly always provides as-good or better routing than Waze.
     
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  15. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thought. I think Tesla currently defaults to doing route planning at mothership and passing the route back to the car, so in principle they could send you a download for the areas near your route starting right after you get a route out of your local area.

    This approach would mean more map data delivery over cellular instead of Wi-Fi, and I'd still want to have a baseline update periodically for the full map, but you could stretch out the period.
     
  16. Mike Robinson

    Mike Robinson Member

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    I run Tesla maps on top and TeslaWaze on bottom of my screen. I use Waze for police spotting. I haven't figured out a way to use TeslaWaze for directions on my Telsa. How can I do that??
     
  17. GlmnAlyAirCar

    GlmnAlyAirCar Active Member

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    I use my iPhone.
     
  18. Alset4S

    Alset4S Member

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    It's far from perfect but for me the voice usability trumps all the minor inconveniences. I've yet to come across a system that is even usable. Ford, BMW, Lexus, Honda, Toyota all suck. What other system works with a button press and a statement. Navigate to Starbucks returns a list of stores in the area. Navigate to Starbucks on xxxx street navigates to it. Navigate to restaurants near me returns a list. Well you get the idea. Not even Google and Google maps is as easy. What other Nav system works as well?
     
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  19. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Member

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    Yeah I agree, the voice support is excellent.

    Overall I find navigation to be decent with two exceptions as mentioned above:
    - No ability to select alternative route
    - No waypoints

    My '08 Infiniti had both these features, no reason a car manufactured 10 years later at 2X the MSRP shouldn't.
     
  20. SoCal Buzz

    SoCal Buzz Supporting Member

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    I totally agree. While Tesla could add a few features, namely multi-point routes (which most people never use on any car), the simplicity and usability are so much better: search is great; routing is great; UI is friendly and flexible; voice works fine; etc.

    One could argue that Apple CarPlay comes close if you are willing to mess with your phone at the same time, but of course it's limited by screen size and responsiveness in the car.
     
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