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Why is range less on a Performance model?

Discussion in 'Model X' started by Ron97062, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Ron97062

    Ron97062 Member

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    Model X LR+ is advertised with 351mi range, while the Performance version 305mi. What parts are different between the two? If you drive them both the same (say, nice and easy) why would one get more range than the other?
     
  2. SSedan

    SSedan Active Member

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    Because the rear motor is larger and less efficient in the performance model.

    They probably come with different tires too which are direct rolling resistance changes.

    Don't buy into the idea it is rim diameter like most folks here want to believe tires make a meaningful difference.
     
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  3. bhorn

    bhorn Member

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    With great power comes great battery usage.
    -
    Uncle Ben, Spider Man
     
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  4. MikeHolliday

    MikeHolliday Member

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    #4 MikeHolliday, Jul 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    I disagree with the motor as the reason for the mileage difference..

    There is a Canadian Company Ingenext that has made a plugin module for the Dual Motor Model 3 for $1,100 that increase 0-60 to 3.8 seconds (a plugin Module) BOOST 50 and for $2,250 upgrade 0-60 3.2 seconds (a software upgrade).Ghost Upgrade It has nothing to do with the Motor it is software. The Rotational Weight of the 21" Wheels, increased drag with the Rear Spoiler and other items. If you think that the downforce created by that rear spoiler does not come at an loss aerodynamic I think you are wrong. The Model 3 Performance and AWD Motors are the very same. Not my cup of tea, but for those who are taking their Model 3's to Track Day...
     
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  5. Pattonz

    Pattonz New Member

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    I've been told as far as the 3 is concerned, the different wheels and tyres add resistance and the suspension and brakes add to weight. However I have the 3 performance stealth with the original aero wheels etc and I still don't get the range of the standard LR 3. I think it's just harder to drive it gingerly
     
  6. Mysta

    Mysta Former Vendor

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    Rim diameter isn't the issue, contact patch is. Usually a bigger rim is wider and more rubber. The motor def is the mileage difference for X/S - not as much for 3.
     
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  7. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    But he isn't asking about the Model 3. In the Model X the performance variant gets a physically larger, and heavier, rear motor that is less efficient than the non-performance Model X. Then you add tires, and everything else on top of that.
     
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  8. SSedan

    SSedan Active Member

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    Besides a few other folks already wrecking most of your argument, I want to touch on the rim weight thing.

    On an ICE once you waste excess energy accelerating a heavier rim it is wasted, BUT in an EV with Regen you have the opportunity to recapture much of it, so I believe the impact of wheel weight is grossly overstated around here. Plus it would only matter in stop and go driving anyway as steady state highway there are not the quantity of acceleration events to waste energy accelerating a heavier wheel. Highway, wheel aerodynamics are critical to range stretching, that is why Tesla goes ahead and uses heavy aero wheels. If weight alone was a meaningful factor they would simply add a forged range wheel, people would pay enough to make it worthwhile.
     
  9. MikeHolliday

    MikeHolliday Member

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    #9 MikeHolliday, Jul 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    The Performace Version of the Model Y without the PUP Package only has a 1 mile lower range than the AWD Model Y... It is not until you add the PUP Package before its range drops to 280 Miles...
     
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  10. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    But again, nobody, besides you, are talking about the Model 3 or Model Y in this thread. In the Model S & X things are completely different.
     
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  11. Krazaak

    Krazaak Member

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    The wheel weight is only part of it, the tire resistance is very significant. Regeneration doesn't recover all of the extra energy used to accelerate the heavier wheels though and you expend even more energy fighting the heavier rotational mass in corners. I could feel the difference in stopping distance between my P100D w/ 20s and a loaner P100D w/ 22s. I actually found myself hitting the brakes because I'd overshoot my intended stop until I got used to driving with the 22s.
     
  12. SSedan

    SSedan Active Member

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    Wheel weight certainly is a factor just grossly overblown around here.
    Heck yeah tires are a big factor. On my wife's last ICE swapping from original good for nothing but mileage LRR tires to high rated in snow all season was a 10% mileage hit. Same rims, same size no idea on tire weight, but new were not LRR.
    Now I will not claim such a swing on tires alone for OEM Tesla options because all are LRR to a degree.
     
  13. bikeandsail

    bikeandsail Member

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    If this was an ICE vehicle no one would even think/imagine a higher performance version of a vehicle with a larger engine would get the same fuel mileage. Why does that concept seem so foreign to people who use electric cars?
     
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  14. SSedan

    SSedan Active Member

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    Because so many here are cripplingly academic without the faintest of clues how anything actually works.

    Don't get me wrong there are many of us who are engineers or something as well but I feel like there are few in the middle who are normal folks who have a basic understanding of how things work.
     
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  15. Alex310

    Alex310 Member

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    Model X Performance Raven, I have both 20” and 22” wheels. With the 22s on I see a significant decrease in range. Acceleration is also reduced. 90% city driving.
     
  16. jerry33

    jerry33 (S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

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    Performance tires, larger wheels, different electronics in the motors, etc. This is actually a somewhat weird question because if you purchased a legacy performance car you would just expect to get less range. No kind of car can beat physics.
     
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  17. mswlogo

    mswlogo Well-Known Member

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    Model 3 the rear motor is almost identical between performance and non. On X it’s a much bigger heavier motor on the performance and non. And for some reason the last plus optimization was not possible (yet any way).

    Apples and oranges comparing the 3 to the X.

    For the record, I had a Performance Stealth with Aero wheels and my avg was 230 wh/mi.
     
  18. Ron97062

    Ron97062 Member

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    This is the first time I've heard that the rear motor is different between the LR and P models. If that's true, that could explain a lot, but I just found a thread over in the Tesla forums that say the motors are the same. I also get that tires can make a different due to rolling resistance, as you pointed out. I just checked the Tesla Model X order site and the wheel sizes on the stock LR and P models are the same at 20".
     
  19. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    It is?

    Personally, if I was going to drop $30K for the upgrade between LR+ and P, I'd want to know everything that $30K encompasses.....


    (Narrator's voice: He DID drop that extra $30K......)
     
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  20. Krazaak

    Krazaak Member

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    Straight from the parts catalog.

    I don't know how accurate it is, but my understanding was the performance AWD had the rear drive unit from the RWD plus a front drive unit, while the LR had two similar power drive units (although packaged different front and rear).

    Of course, parts catalog also shows the newer front drive unit used in the raven refresh.

    upload_2020-7-8_18-33-9.png
     

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