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Why is the Model 3 compared to the BMW?
- Thread starter Barklikeadog
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that is what i think will happen and why the auto comparison is a bit off target. how many businesses throughout history have said that 'X' person will buy this product and it turns out to be 'Y'?I've seen this movie beforeTesla creates demand with their product. Some of it comes in the form of taking market share from competitors, but they also pull consumers up the price ladder because of their aspirational products.
Affordable is chosen carefully. They did not say cheap.
The original plan just said affordable and more affordable.
And Part Deux just says "high volume".
Yes, it's expected that people will buy up due to relatively low running costs, but the pricing is still premium segment and that's the target market. Premium sales are significant and growing.
Tesla has stated that it's planning to stay in the premium space.
chronopc
Active Member
"Affordable" means different things to different people. Take that verbiage with a grain of salt.
Besides the word "affordable", Elon delivered everything he stated; a $35,000 sedan that would do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, aim for a 5-star safety rating, have autopilot HARDWARE, seat 5 adults and have a range of at least 215 miles.
I'm not sure what all of the fuss is about now that option pricing is released.
Average market sedans don't go for $35,000 so I don't know why one would think the Model 3 should be compared to those $10,000 less in value (Camry, Accord, Civic, Elantra, Altima, Corolla).
Besides the word "affordable", Elon delivered everything he stated; a $35,000 sedan that would do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, aim for a 5-star safety rating, have autopilot HARDWARE, seat 5 adults and have a range of at least 215 miles.
I'm not sure what all of the fuss is about now that option pricing is released.
Average market sedans don't go for $35,000 so I don't know why one would think the Model 3 should be compared to those $10,000 less in value (Camry, Accord, Civic, Elantra, Altima, Corolla).
Interestingly, if you get a V6 in the Honda or Toyota, which is necessary to get it closer to Model 3 performance, you're bumping up into the price range of Model 3. Given that, and trying to be as objective as possible (as futile as that may be), I don't think the price on Model 3 is unreasonable at all. Maybe you can get better incentives from one of those large manufacturers and save a bit of money, but there's no tax credits or gas savings either. True unique features like Autopilot cost a pretty penny, but you don't even have the option of getting those on other cars. And that's comparing it to the most numerous middle-of-the-road utilitarian mass-produced sedans. Compared to the luxury entry-level market I don't see how this isn't going to steal some 3-series and C-class sales once they get production ramped.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
Maybe to Elon, people driving BMW are the masses
May be not in the US, but in Europe, they do. BMW has 3 models in Switzerlands Top 10 for example, one of them being the BMW 3-Series, the main competitor for Model 3.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
Actually here in silicon valley, BMWs (or similar) are everywhere. I think it's an unhealthy sign of the wealth gap, but Tesla has a very accessible market here
The lowest configurable price on a Model S after deducting the federal tax rebate and gas cost savings is $57,700. Add the $1,200 delivery fee and the applicable state tax, tag and title fees and you are well over $60,000 in most states.
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
Base model S is $70,000 before tax incentive. You get the same fuel savings with either car. Why would I want a base model S instead of a fully loaded 3 with a longer range and all features?
chronopc
Active Member
I was responding to someone who said that it was cute to say the model S cost $50k. My comparison of gas savings was towards luxury cars such as the 5-series.
chronopc
Active Member
Doesn't all cars make you pay a delivery fee? In CA there's a $2,500 rebate for the Model S. So you're looking at $59,500 for a base Model S before considering savings in gas expense and maintenance.
Do I need to explain my $50,000 remark? I in no way meant that the S costs 50,000. I am saying that people who are going to pay 50k for a car like a bmw, mercedes or audi, are the people most likely to buy a Model S. I think it goes without saying that people are spending more than they normally would in order to get a Tesla.
Which is why I then suggested that the Model 3 buyers may be people who spend 30K for a Camry, Accord, Civic, etc but they are willing to spend a little more than they normally would in order to get a Tesla.
Which is why I asked... why not compare the Model 3 to those autos?
clear enough?
Which is why I then suggested that the Model 3 buyers may be people who spend 30K for a Camry, Accord, Civic, etc but they are willing to spend a little more than they normally would in order to get a Tesla.
Which is why I asked... why not compare the Model 3 to those autos?
clear enough?
Maybe to Elon, people driving BMW are the masses
I've joked about this with coworkers and friends well before Tesla ever became a company. In the more populous parts of CA, it does seem like the BMW 3 series/Mercedes C-class are the mass market vehicle. In LA cities like Glendale or Santa Monica, or Silicon Valley cities, you'll see more lower model BMWs and Mercedes than you will Hondas/Toyotas.
I very much disagree with that premise. A typically optioned 3 series or C-class is right at the Model 3 price range.
The Model S owners are the ones typically looking at the higher capacity ones, and coming from 7 series/S-class.
The 5 series/E-class owners are kind of stuck in the middle. The ones I've talked to don't want to splurge up and seem much more enthusiastic about a loaded Model 3 than a 60/70 kw Model S.
Then you need to address the numbers. There are probably 300k reservations for the model 3 in the USA alone. Sales of the C class, 3-series, A4, don't even add up to 200k cars sold in a year.
Sales of Camry, Corolla, Civic, Accord, etc add up to 2 million cars sold in the USA in a year.
I doubt that entry level luxury cars will see a 90% drop in sales next year... so where are the reservations coming from? I can only deduce
that most of these buyers are coming from outside of the entry level luxury car segment.
You are basing your opinion on someone you talked to. Like people who say they don't know anyone who voted for Trump.
No, the Model S in step two was the "affordable family sedan." The Model 3 was the "even more affordable car." Well, it is more affordable than their "family sedan."
chronopc
Active Member
In the US so far this year the top 3 selling vehicles are all pick up trucks. I don't think BWM 3-series is anywhere near the top 20 cars sold in the US. But even with that somehow there is over 500k total reservations for the Model 3 and according to the earning report meeting today there's an average of 1,800 new reservations daily since the delivery event. I really don't know what is a good comparison for the Model 3, but there seems to be quite a bit of demand for it. Which sucks for me cause I am hoping people would cancel their reservations so I can move closer to the head of the line. Lol.
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