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Why is the Model 3 compared to the BMW?

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f the Model 3 is truly meant for the average car buyer,
Some 90 million cars are sold yearly across the world; and I assure you that the Corolla is waaaay above average.

The Model 3 is a $35k USD car to start, before taxes, deliveries and options. It is not a great leap of reasoning to realize that the car price is fairly average for an entry level luxury entrant.
 
Which is why I then suggested that the Model 3 buyers may be people who spend 30K for a Camry, Accord, Civic, etc but they are willing to spend a little more than they normally would in order to get a Tesla.
Because that group also includes a large swath that spent $20 - $25k. After tax credits, I paid $17k for my Prius Prime PHEV. The problem with choosing the sub-group who bought the tricked-out Accord and Camry models is that you quickly descend into feature-itis comparisons but you don't know which are important.

The home-link, or the fake leather ?
The 0-60 times, or the extra electronic doo-dad ?
 
Yeah, that was me.

You are getting flack because no way, no how is Model S $50K even after incentives. As to "gas savings"... sure, electricity is a bit cheaper than gas, but not that much! You'd have to drive a Model S for about 20 years to recoup $10K in "gas savings" and that's if your in a place like CA or HI where gas is still $3.50 a gallon!
EVs are a much better deal when combined with PV. The difference can be up to 9 cents a mile.
 
So we differ on opinions. It is time to pick the number one vehicle traded for a Model 3 (even though most will not actually trade).

Toyota Camry
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Prius
Honda Civic
Honda Accord
BMW 3 series (high lease proportion)
Nissan Leaf
Tesla Model S

The car that fits the most is the BMW 3 series but there are a lot more Civic and Prius drivers. I suspect the Model 3 will have a huge aspirational draw from the Honda Civic. But for the cautious out there (ie Camry), resale and out of warranty repairs will weigh heavily. For those that calculate TCO, depreciation will be a sticking point. A Toyota will be seen as cheaper in the long run for many.

I for one have no idea. I see it being desired by any of the sport sedan owners. There are a lot of minor players - Acura TL, Audi A4, MB C class, etc etc. They all add up. The Prius would be big but you are getting too much performance for that crowd.
 
So we differ on opinions. It is time to pick the number one vehicle traded for a Model 3 (even though most will not actually trade).

Toyota Camry
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Prius
Honda Civic
Honda Accord
BMW 3 series (high lease proportion)
Nissan Leaf
Tesla Model S

The car that fits the most is the BMW 3 series but there are a lot more Civic and Prius drivers. I suspect the Model 3 will have a huge aspirational draw from the Honda Civic. But for the cautious out there (ie Camry), resale and out of warranty repairs will weigh heavily. For those that calculate TCO, depreciation will be a sticking point. A Toyota will be seen as cheaper in the long run for many.

I for one have no idea. I see it being desired by any of the sport sedan owners. There are a lot of minor players - Acura TL, Audi A4, MB C class, etc etc. They all add up. The Prius would be big but you are getting too much performance for that crowd.
If you add up the entry level luxury sedan sales for the major and minor players. That total will equal the number of Model 3 reservations. Which means that 3series sales next year will drop from 70000 to 0.

I posted an actual survey of tesla owners that showed the vast majority of S buyers previously spent less than 60k on a car and a few spent less than 35k on their previous car.

Elon is comparing apples to apples with the 3 series, but people paying for reservations are trading in their orange for an apple.
 
If you add up the entry level luxury sedan sales for the major and minor players. That total will equal the number of Model 3 reservations. Which means that 3series sales next year will drop from 70000 to 0.

I posted an actual survey of tesla owners that showed the vast majority of S buyers previously spent less than 60k on a car and a few spent less than 35k on their previous car.

Elon is comparing apples to apples with the 3 series, but people paying for reservations are trading in their orange for an apple.

Agreed - a lot of Tesla 3 buyers will likely be former Orange or Lemon owners.

I don't think that means it should be compared to those cars instead of the Apples it was designed to compete with, though.

The point is, it's better than other Apples even without incentives, dollar for dollar and feature for feature. If it can outdo Apples on their own terms, obviously it's better than Oranges and Lemons on anything except a financial basis - and it might be competitive financially too once TCO is considered.

If they pitched the comparison with Oranges initially, they'd be stuck defending the higher purchase price and arguing TCO or incentives - both weak arguments for most people. By taking on Apples head on before incentives, they win the other arguments by default.
 
Agreed - a lot of Tesla 3 buyers will likely be former Orange or Lemon owners.

I don't think that means it should be compared to those cars instead of the Apples it was designed to compete with, though.

The point is, it's better than other Apples even without incentives, dollar for dollar and feature for feature. If it can outdo Apples on their own terms, obviously it's better than Oranges and Lemons on anything except a financial basis - and it might be competitive financially too once TCO is considered.

If they pitched the comparison with Oranges initially, they'd be stuck defending the higher purchase price and arguing TCO or incentives - both weak arguments for most people. By taking on Apples head on before incentives, they win the other arguments by default.

I don't think they would be stuck. I just think appealing to 5million potential customers is better than 500k potential customers. They are taking a chunk of the 5 million now without even trying. They were going to get some entry level luxury buyers no matter what.

I just think it is worth talking about and comparing. Guy who would typically spend 30k on a sedan decides to splurge 45k on a tesla. How do those autos compare? Why make this financial move? I thought I would find more discussion on this here. It is an interesting consumer behaviour issue.
 
Then you need to address the numbers. There are probably 300k reservations for the model 3 in the USA alone. Sales of the C class, 3-series, A4, don't even add up to 200k cars sold in a year.

Sales of Camry, Corolla, Civic, Accord, etc add up to 2 million cars sold in the USA in a year.

I doubt that entry level luxury cars will see a 90% drop in sales next year... so where are the reservations coming from? I can only deduce
that most of these buyers are coming from outside of the entry level luxury car segment.

You are basing your opinion on someone you talked to. Like people who say they don't know anyone who voted for Trump.

I don't think they would be stuck. I just think appealing to 5million potential customers is better than 500k potential customers. They are taking a chunk of the 5 million now without even trying. They were going to get some entry level luxury buyers no matter what.

I just think it is worth talking about and comparing. Guy who would typically spend 30k on a sedan decides to splurge 45k on a tesla. How do those autos compare? Why make this financial move? I thought I would find more discussion on this here. It is an interesting consumer behaviour issue.

I think you're basically right, but it's more complex than that.

Many are from entry level luxury, but many are not. For example, my family, and my parents are not in the entry level luxury market. We're more the loaded Accord/Camry type. However, we have or have had luxury cars before. I had a 3 series before and will be replacing an entry level Lexus with the 3. My parents have had S and E classes. For a variety of reasons, the Model 3 appeals to us. We like the $35,000 price. Especially with the tax rebate. The loaded $59,000 price is a blow, but not enough to put us off. I'll probably forgo the self driving stuff to stay with the $49,000 price. I was hoping the entry level one would have 250 miles of range, but since it doesn't I'll stretch to the bigger battery. My dad always expected to pay $50,000 and since he has major range anxiety (even tho he only drives about 40 miles a day), he'll probably stretch to the full $59,000 as he likes the self driving stuff. We probably wouldn't buy another entry level luxury car (or have no plans to), but we'll "stretch" for this Model 3 for our own reasons. Others are in the market for the entry level luxury, and I can see Tesla taking some sales, but not all. Others were hoping for a $25,000 Tesla (after tax incentives). Others can afford a S, but want the 3 simply because it's cheaper and fulfills their particular needs at a better price (all the S owners I've talked to, who are basically buying it for a spouse, child, etc). Many want it now. Plenty can afford to wait. I've talked to plenty who just threw down a deposit and haven't even went through the thought process of whether they really want one yet because it's a refundable deposit. They're getting some of that 5 million market just as they're getting some of that entry level luxury market. There's just a whole range of people to explain the 500,000 orders.

The pickup market doesn't make sense for Tesla to target... yet. Pickups and EVs aren't a good match yet. As the technology gets better, then it would make more sense for an electric EV. Time is ripe yet. In the US, it's mostly full sized pickups anyways and the tech is definitely way too premature to make a decent full sized pickup.
 
Model 3 is an enthusiast vehicle as are most BMWs. Model 3 was not intended to be the next VW Beetle or Toyota Camry. The "common man" Camry market can't handle the truth that an EV brings to the table. They just want a cheap ride to Walmart. No, I think the biggest Model 3 market will come from BMW via the 3 and Nissan via the Leaf.