I'd guess when driving the MCU is significantly clocked down to reduce power draw. No way you need that much processing power just for some maps, music, and control displays.
Why is the newly announce X have lower range?
- Thread starter mswlogo
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I'd guess when driving the MCU is significantly clocked down to reduce power draw. No way you need that much processing power just for some maps, music, and control displays.
I think this is going to turn out to be the correct take.
LCI X Long Range is about 300lb lighter than the Raven LR+ spec line, 5185 vs. ~5500. Notably, 5185 is about the same curb weight spec as the old 75D/Standard Range Raven. So, the pack has to have gotten smaller, the rear motor is bigger and about twice as powerful, and likely has beefier power electronics and cabling associated with it, so.... There's nowhere else to take weight out of the car, it's already aluminum everywhere that isn't glass. Maybe an aluminum subframe or something like that could take a fewlb out, but not 200+.
I believe all the installed capacity (Powerwall/industrial) is 18650's too. Wonder when Powerwall will get FSD heh
AhwatukeeDad
Member
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
Powerwall 2 and Powerpack use 2170 cells. All made on the same line for 3/Y.
Tesla Powerwall 2 Now Shipping With 2170 Gigafactory Batteries Inside
There's similar talk in another thread about a 90kWh battery causing the range loss.
So all in all, price increases while reductions in cost
Exactly what I was thinking. I’d be pretty upset if I bought one and couple months later they announced a longer range X. I think they would be better off doing what they did on S with plaid+ and announce a date when longer range will be available. Also another thread discusses no mention of air suspension. I suspect that all weighs a few pounds too.
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
One theory I haven't heard here is that they went to a new cell chemistry to get the power needed for plaid but had to give up a small amount of energy density too get it. I don't buy the argument that they are cell constrained and cell count has decreased. S/X use difference cells than 3/Y and the S/X cell supply chain is mature and has proven ability to supply for 100k S/X per year. Reduced cell count for improved cooling is possible. Additionally I don't buy the argument that reduced mass means reduced battery mass, there's always ways to cut structural mass, mega casings likely help.
DIL
Member
There’s another possibility: they could be future-proofing the cars by limiting the range through software now and then “releasing” additional range as competitors come out. So we get just enough to beat Lucid and Rivian. Every time a competitor comes up with a new product announcement, Tesla beats them.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
And a little further down was this post which sounds plausible too.There's similar talk in another thread about a 90kWh battery causing the range loss.
So all in all, price increases while reductions in cost
Major 2021 Model X refresh pending [Update: Unveiled January 27, 2021]
Personally I would wait until the new cells are in the cars, but then I am happy enough with my 2016 90D since I never venture more than about 75 miles from home anymore with COVID around.
There is something you are forgetting: When they were pumping out 100k S/X per year, they were selling mostly standard range, i.e. 75kWh, variants. When they switched to only having longer range that dropped their capacity to 90k year. As was reported for 2020 through the 20Q3 update. But now in the 20Q4 update they announced that their capacity is back to 100k/year. Which is likely to be because of fewer cells in the pack. Which lines up with a significant weight reduction, and reduced range on the X. (The S didn't get reduced range because they were able to make up for it with better aerodynamics.)
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
We will see once the EPA docs come out, if there is a reduced cell count, I think it will only be for the purposes of freeing up space for better cooling and that total reduction in cell count will be minimal, as in less than 5%. I still see reduced pack capacity (if indeed it is reduced) as being most likely to be caused by a cell-level reduction in energy density, a reduction driven by a need to increase power density.
azjohn
Member
Recently on Twitter The Limiting Factor said he thinks the battery size has been reduced slightly
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
Structure, including pack/module structure. Cutting 300lb off a 5000 lb design is big. But it's not an unreasonable level of mass reduction for a vehicle that hasn't seen a full redesign in 8 years. Everyone here is making statements like "but most stuff is already aluminum etc. etc."
There are tons of different aluminum alloys with very different structural properties, likewise with steels where ultimate strength can vary from about 50ksi to 220ksi+, all designs are constrained by available manufacturing processes and a million other factors. I'm an engineer and a structural reviewer at my company. I don't think your theory of fewer batteries is unreasonable, but given the big increases in charge and discharge power I think mine's better. I wouldn't be too surprised to be wrong though.
Ok, then how do you explain that the Model S, with better aero drag, received slightly more range, but the Model X lost range? (Even after weight reduction and adding the heat pump.)
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
Of course I don't have a complete explanation but there are many possibilities including (as I said) that some energy density was traded for power density. Additionally less efficient tires may come standard, there may be additional power draw from internal components like the "gaming computer" and 360 and 340 are pretty round numbers, so wouldn't be surprised if they're sandbagging a bit.
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I wonder if they made the batteries bigger to get the extra power, does make it less likely that they offer a 100 kWh based LR+ model in the future? Bc there isn't the room for the larger battery? I don't think that would make sense since the plaid model presumably has a larger battery today, right?
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
One thing I haven’t seen discussed much here is that the new X supercharges as fast as the LR Model 3 for the first 15 minutes in MPH terms. This is about 50% faster than before and will make a big difference on road trips. More than making up for the small range loss... unless you’re in the great Idahoan supercharger desert.
