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Why isn't everyone as upset about the Supercharger increase as I am?

I don’t mean to be pedantic, but that’s a 200% increase, not 300%. You’re also mixing up kW and kWh. kW is power (like horsepower) and kWh is energy (like liters of fuel). Chargers are rated in kW and battery packs are rated in kWh.

Time based billing went up in the US recently, as well. However, prior to the increase, it was a fraction of the cost of energy-based billing. It was so low that they probably were just barely covering the their energy costs, let alone equipment and maintenance costs.

I personally think the increase on time-based billing is a bit too much - the pendulum has swung too far - but part of that might have to do with applying pressure on regulators to allow energy-based billing. This seems to be working, as I see there is a public petition to allow energy-based billing.

This is a good opportunity for apartment and condo dwellers to approach their property management offices to request destination charging for tenants.
In some instances it is a 445% increase. Old price $0.46 for 250 kW, new price $2.05 for 250 kW. 445% increase, so on the low end 70% but otherwise, higher.
 
Ya, I'm a little annoyed because I was looking forward to cheap road trips (I don't have my Model Y yet), and they basically torpedoed that.

For someone who does lots of road trips (this isn't me), it makes more sense to buy a much cheaper ICE car now, which is disappointing.
 

Big Earl

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Ya, I'm a little annoyed because I was looking forward to cheap road trips (I don't have my Model Y yet), and they basically torpedoed that.

For someone who does lots of road trips (this isn't me), it makes more sense to buy a much cheaper ICE car now, which is disappointing.

I do a lot of road trips and the cost of Supercharging is at parity with the price of gas for a Prius. I’d rather not drive a Prius, especially on road trips.
 
Are you kidding? It went up about 300% at some speeds.......one week I was paying $0.43 per MINUTE at a Supercharger for about 130 kW/h, and the very next week, at the same charger, I was paying $1.25 for the same speed.

I don't at all understand why it's happening, other than they know they can get away with it. I accept it because it's better than the alternative, but I'm angry and attribute it to greed, not necessity.

Edited to note I changed payments per kW to per minute - my first posting of this said per kW in error, and GtiMart fortunately pointed that out.
Yea I'm pretty pissed too I seen in before February I'm getting charged $0.48 now $1.25 $0.80 I paid $32 for 51Kwh
 
Are you kidding? It went up about 300% at some speeds.......one week I was paying $0.43 per MINUTE at a Supercharger for about 130 kW/h, and the very next week, at the same charger, I was paying $1.25 for the same speed.

I don't at all understand why it's happening, other than they know they can get away with it. I accept it because it's better than the alternative, but I'm angry and attribute it to greed, not necessity.

Edited to note I changed payments per kW to per minute - my first posting of this said per kW in error, and GtiMart fortunately pointed that out.
Yea they raised the prices over night before March I was paying $0.48 per min now it's $1.25 min for 100kwh to 150kwh and $0.80 min for 60kwh to 100kwh prices tripled
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Time based billing went up in the US recently, as well. However, prior to the increase, it was a fraction of the cost of energy-based billing. It was so low that they probably were just barely covering the their energy costs, let alone equipment and maintenance costs.
My understanding is that Canada does not allow energy-based billing by third party utility suppliers. Coming from the US to Canada last year, I was used to reasonable prices at Superchargers and being charged per kWh. I was surprised to see Supercharger costs here in BC, considering how low my kWh cost was for my condo. My charging cost in my garage in Vancouver is far less than what it is in California for most EV owners (I had solar and Powerwalls so my personal cost was even lower).

I wonder what Tesla would charge at Superchargers here if they could bill in kWh.
 
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ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Moderator
I am surprised that Tesla is taking steps to open up their SC network to other vehicles. To me their SC network is a huge competitive advantage.

Or maybe they are just making token efforts and this will not happen for a long time.
Elon has been saying for many years that any EV manufacturer who wanted to use the Supercharger network would be allowed to do so as long as they contributed proportionally to the cost of building and maintaining the network. No other car company stepped up. They likely did not like the optics of their EVs charging at a Tesla station, but they also didn’t really understand the advantages of the Supercharger network. Instead they deceived their buyers with statements that there were thousands of public chargers available when in fact many of those chargers are very expensive and poorly maintained and there were often only one or two at a given location.

In the US the WV “dieselgate” scandal, resulting in the court ordered EV charging network buildout, has been a real boost to EV charging for everybody. But the Supercharger network is still the best charging network by far.

This recent jump in Supercharger costs in Canada is indeed disheartening. It’s now more important than ever to start charging at a low battery level and not charge more than you need to get to your next charging stop.
 

Big Dog

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Mar 7, 2016
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Elon has been saying for many years that any EV manufacturer who wanted to use the Supercharger network would be allowed to do so as long as they contributed proportionally to the cost of building and maintaining the network. No other car company stepped up. They likely did not like the optics of their EVs charging at a Tesla station, but they also didn’t really understand the advantages of the Supercharger network. Instead they deceived their buyers with statements that there were thousands of public chargers available when in fact many of those chargers are very expensive and poorly maintained and there were often only one or two at a given location.

In the US the WV “dieselgate” scandal, resulting in the court ordered EV charging network buildout, has been a real boost to EV charging for everybody. But the Supercharger network is still the best charging network by far.

This recent jump in Supercharger costs in Canada is indeed disheartening. It’s now more important than ever to start charging at a low battery level and not charge more than you need to get to your next charging stop.

Opening up the SC network to others also makes Tesla eligible for government subsidies to build EV charging stations.
 
I just wanted to give a perspective on Supercharger cost that admittedly does not reflect the typical situation but might be interesting nevertheless. We were driving back to Kamloops this afternoon and stopped in Vernon to eat. Didn't actually intend to charge since navigation indicated we would get home with about 100 km of remaining range; therefore no preconditioning of battery. Ended up plugging in (while we ate) with about 50% charge in battery; charge rate stayed below 60 kWh through whole session. Bottom line, added about 100 km of range at a cost of $4.05 I figure that a typical gas car would cost $10-20 per 100 km. The Supercharging cost about $0.04 per km; close to double what it would cost at home but I didn't think the cost was unreasonable. Had I started charging from a lower state of charge and/or with preconditioning it would presumably charged faster but the $/km would likely have been much higher.

Maybe the conclusion is that if minimizing cost is the priority, charge slowing by plugging in with a higher state of charge and no preconditioning. If faster charging is the priority, precondition battery and work the battery in the 10-60% range (but be prepared to pay significantly more in order to spend less time at Superchargers).
 
Long conversation with too much Canadian niceness when what is needed is outrage and a regulatory big stick.

I suggest that the features of this situation that matter are ..

  • Tesla has implemented a massive hike in supercharging rates. Drive Tesla Canada (2Mar2022) reports a specific example which shows a 72% increase. Other web references describe up to 4x. There’s no clear published price schedule (transparency is also a problem) so it’s hard to tell but it’s big …

  • When we bought our cars we bought the whole package. A Tesla purchase gets you less steel and plastic for more money – you’re paying for other things. Supercharging is part of the encouragement to buy – if it didn’t work it would never be offered for free. In my case I was led to expect supercharging rates at 2 – 3 times what I pay at home. My last use cost 4 – 5 times the home rate.

  • A significant number of Tesla purchases have received provincial and federal government subsidies. We should expect that these authorities to ensure Canadians aren’t scalped after committing to purchases which they have encouraged.

  • Supercharging is a business of reselling electrical power which is entirely similar to what our major utilities do. Their prices are regulated - supercharging should be too. Especially if Tesla purchases receive government subsidies.
I further suggest that there are some things that don’t matter

  • The appeal to Measurement Canada to align with the US on charging per kwh vs time of use is a distraction. The issue is that supercharging needs to cost less – the issue is not how you measure it.

  • The comparison with ICE costs is important at the time of purchasing a car but not beyond. Once you have an EV you don’t have an option of putting gas in it. Power cost needs to be compared to other electrical supply transactions and to what we expected when we bought our cars – not to gasoline.

  • We should also have no sympathy for the infrastructure issues that Tesla faces to supply the increasing charging demand. These issues are an outcome of successful sales which have huge related revenue. Cry me a river…


I hope that other Canadians can be vocal and assertive on this issue. They wouldn’t do this in New York or Munich. We shouldn’t let them do it to us.
 

Vawlkus

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Feb 28, 2017
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These increases are throughout North America, not just Canada. I do not know if it’s worldwide, but it could be.

The push for changes to the measurement standards was started by various EV clubs, Tesla is just in agreement with it as it’s a more accurate method of billing for power to charge for amount rather than time.

I get that your irritated, but I don’t agree that acting in the manner you’re suggesting will do anything productive.
 
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ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Moderator
The appeal to Measurement Canada to align with the US on charging per kwh vs time of use is a distraction. The issue is that supercharging needs to cost less – the issue is not how you measure it.
I don’t think it is a distraction. Charging per kWh helps non-EV owners better understand how EVs work. If you tell people that your Tesla with a 78kWh battery pack costs $X to “fill up” per kWh they can relate that to the gas tank in their ICE, as opposed to trying to explain that their charging costs vary dramatically over the time period they are at a charging station, which makes no sense at all. ICE owners rarely understand the concept of kW charging rates and how that effects overall charge time since when they pump gas it flows at a constant rate no matter who full their gas tank is.

Also, changing to a per kWh charge makes it clearer to EV owners the huge cost disparity between charging at home vs on the road and will motivate them to demand lower charging costs for long distance travel.

I have a Model 3 that I will not be doing long distance travel with because my 2017 X has free lifetime Supercharging and paid Supercharging in Canada is so disproportionately expensive compared to what I was used to in the US before I moved to Vancouver a year ago.

It is a motivating factor for not replacing my X with a different Tesla.
 
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bradtem

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Dec 18, 2018
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  • Supercharging is a business of reselling electrical power which is entirely similar to what our major utilities do. Their prices are regulated - supercharging should be too. Especially if Tesla purchases receive government subsidies.
This is a very common misconception. Charging is not really about selling the electrical energy. That's gasoline thinking, where you buy it by the gallon. Charging is 90% service and 10% energy for sale. That's why a fast charger costs you a lot more than a slow charger for the same energy. Charging isn't the business of selling electricity, while gas stations are technically in the business of selling you gasoline (at low profit, they actually make more money from the convenience store.)

Tesla has claimed the supercharger network is not to make money. It's to sell Teslas. I don't know if they still do that.
Electricity in Ontario is fairly cheap. Wholesale prices are probably like 3 cents/kwh. If you pay 50 cents/kwh all the rest is delivery. Not just Hydro delivery but the big expensive charging machine, and raised costs during peak times and more.

Once the kwh are in our cars then we feel we have bought kwh, and want to pay a flat rate for them like people do at gas stations for gallons. But while they are going in, we care a lot about how and when it goes in and don't pay a flat rate. We are so used to buying energy by the gallon that it takes time to get the head wrapped around this approach, and we also like very simple prices. The station's costs are:
  • Generation cost from some contracted generation provider (usually just 3c/kwh)
  • Transmission cost from a power company
  • Time of day surcharges (which vary a great deal)
  • Minutes of time on a $100,000 machine that is a DC Fast charger plus cost of the land
The last one, the minutes of time on the expensive machine, is actually the largest factor for most chargers.

And BTW, while residential electrical customers pay by the kwh (though they may also have time of use, in fact you want that if you have an electric car) but commercial customers have prices that are based on their peak use in many cases.
 
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