Ok, I have owned an EV for 10 years, and my Model 3 since they came to Canada. I had Level 2 chargers installed in any Condos I lived in (it helped that I consult condo boards for EV Infrastructure installs as a side gig), and only used Superchargers on rare occasions and really long trips. My lifestyle changed so for the last 6 months don't have a charger in my rental unit and have had to use Superchargers exclusively. A bit of a pain, but it reminded me that an EV as your single car without home charging is almost impossible if it is not a Tesla. I was already sort of upset with Tesla's charging protocols. Even with preconditioning it seems like a crap shoot as to what rate you will be charging at. It sucked to pay (old rate) $0.46 per min at 61 kW when the price is the same for 150 kW. I know that you can't get peak all the time, but I used to unplug when I dropped below 800 km/hr charge rate. I am looking forward to the coming (hopefully) change to per kW fees. That will expose the HUGE profit margin that these chargers make. I am all for everyone making money, but come on. Yes the price of gas spiked, but it is, and will come back down. These prices seem to be here to stay. The cost prior to the increase for my local 150 Kw charger was $0.44. I could normally count on just above the 100 kW mark. Now that same charge is $1.30 a min! Triple! At the 100 kW rate that works out to an old rate of about $0.26 per kW. But now they are charging $0.77 per kW. I was paying $0.11 kW on average for my condo charger. So Tesla was already making a small profit for the equipment etc even figuring in commercial rates, more when the charger dropped below 100 kW (and above 60 kW). Now it is just gouging. At this price I can no longer suggest an EV to any friends that ask unless you can install a home charger. It is better to buy and drive an ICE car. Sad times for the EV community. Tesla has done us all a disservice.
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Why isn't everyone as upset about the Supercharger increase as I am?
- Thread starter TOFLYIN
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roblab
Active Member
For most of us, Tesla has done us well. I charge at home, and that costs me less than $20 for a full "tank" of 400 miles:, but that is cheap compared to the old cost of filling up with gasoline, about $50. I don't know why you can't recommend Tesla to your friends, for even with high electric rates, the cost per mile is still about half to a fourth of the price of filling up with gas, plus you don't have to drive to a gas station and stand in the cold while your car fills.
If you feel Tesla is gouging you, you need to go buy a gas car, especially now that gas prices are higher than they've been in years. Then you'll remember all the extras you must have done, like oil changes and filters, plus the cost of having the work done at the dealer's prices. I assume the chargers you had installed allow you to fill up; for free, too, right?
Don't know why you think the price of gas "will come down". Over the years it has done nothing but go up, a little at a time. If you were old, like me, you could remember gas being a quarter a gallon. I used to fill my motorcycle for 19 cents per. You will never see those prices again.
If you feel Tesla is gouging you, you need to go buy a gas car, especially now that gas prices are higher than they've been in years. Then you'll remember all the extras you must have done, like oil changes and filters, plus the cost of having the work done at the dealer's prices. I assume the chargers you had installed allow you to fill up; for free, too, right?
Don't know why you think the price of gas "will come down". Over the years it has done nothing but go up, a little at a time. If you were old, like me, you could remember gas being a quarter a gallon. I used to fill my motorcycle for 19 cents per. You will never see those prices again.
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If you do the math, it is not cheaper than gas. $1.30 per min for 800 km/hr charge rate (800/60 the /$1.30)=$0.1025 per km, or $10.25 per 100 km since this is the metric gas car use in Canada. At $1.70 per litre $10.25 will buy you 6.03 litres of fuel. So a car getting 6.l/100 (or 40 mpg) pays the same. At $1.50 it works out to 6.8 litres/ 100 km, and at $1.20 it is 8.54 litres/100 km, so any car that does better than 27 mpg is ahead of the game.
Oh, and just because I think I am being gouged doesn't mean I have to buy an ICE car, how about I just bring everybody's attention to it to maybe affect change?
Tesla is finally flexing its muscle to recoup Supercharging costs. We shouldn't expect cheap fast charging - there's too much capital involved, plus demand charges for these short bursts of usage. Tesla has not mitigated demand charges using stationary storage as a buffer. Maybe some day, but not yet. The only cheap charging will be in your own driveway, the next best thing will be public L2. If you can't charge at home, maybe you could help lobby local businesses and government to get more public L2 installed for your day-to-day charging needs, and save the fast charging for road trips when it's unavoidable.
I had a bit of trouble wrapping my head around all of the various units and conversions happening, so I went out to my car and pulled up pricing for Toronto Superchargers. I’ll use Lakeshore Blvd, Toronto’s only V3 station, as an example. I’m also going to convert to miles and US dollars for my own benefit.
Price per kWh per tier:
Tier 1: CA$0.25/kWh to ♾
Tier 2: CA$0.39/kWh to CA$0.65/kWh
Tier 3: CA$0.42/kWh to CA$0.75/kWh
Tier 4: CA$0.47/kWh to CA$0.65/kWh
US Dollars (*0.79)
Tier 1: $0.20/kWh to ♾
Tier 2: $0.31/kWh to $0.51/kWh
Tier 3: $0.33/kWh to $0.59/kWh
Tier 4: $0.37/kWh to $0.47/kWh
Pricey compared to average US prices of around $0.32/kWh, but it really varies based on location.
Divide all of these figures by 3 for a rough approximation of cost per mile.
Price per kWh per tier:
Tier 1: CA$0.25/kWh to ♾
Tier 2: CA$0.39/kWh to CA$0.65/kWh
Tier 3: CA$0.42/kWh to CA$0.75/kWh
Tier 4: CA$0.47/kWh to CA$0.65/kWh
US Dollars (*0.79)
Tier 1: $0.20/kWh to ♾
Tier 2: $0.31/kWh to $0.51/kWh
Tier 3: $0.33/kWh to $0.59/kWh
Tier 4: $0.37/kWh to $0.47/kWh
Pricey compared to average US prices of around $0.32/kWh, but it really varies based on location.
Divide all of these figures by 3 for a rough approximation of cost per mile.
That Lakeshore charger is in a pay parking, so you have to pay for parking (Toronto parking prices!)as well. The rates are a bit lower because of that. The 250 kW charger in Orangeville rates are $0.26, $0.68, $1.30 & $2.05. So yes way pricier than in VA, especially when our electricity rates are fairly similar I think.
roblab
Active Member
And, truth be told, most of our usage is near our homes, so it would be worth it to most EV drivers.
Don't know what you mean that it's mostly not worth it if you can't charge at home. My wife pays for supercharging, and it's a whale of a lot cheaper than buying gas, not to mention the environmental benefits, which may not matter to you now, but they will soon. My S charges for free at superchargers, meaning that I paid for the supercharging when I bought the car.
Let me see.... 400 miles in a gas car would take 15 gallons, which at $5 a gallon would be $75. 400 miles in my Model S costs me 100 kWh of power, which at 14 cents per kWh is $14. That's how I figure it here in California. Sounds like it's a LOT cheaper to drive 400 miles on electricity. And don't start quoting what it might cost to drive it in a Prius.
Really, you need to buy a gas car and be happy convincing yourself you've got the best deal. I did the math for me, and it works out that electricity is better.
If it came down to it, I would rather charge at Superchargers than drive a gas car. I can find productive or relaxing things to do while charging.
To your original question, the reason is probably that most owners are charging at home, so the Supercharger rates aren't really important. Most are fine with paying a premium for a robust and reliable Supercharging network during the small percentage of times they need it.
I am upset. What's the point of road tripping if it's less convenient than ice and costs as much
UncleCreepy
Member
While I agree with that statement 100%, the supercharging network has already been robust and reliable before they increased the prices. So the money goes right into someone's pocket, not into the reliability of superchargers.
And yeah, I only use superchargers when absolutely necessary and I make sure I only use it when the SoC is very low so I get the full 250 kW. Used to be $0.48/minute, now it's about $2/minute. That's more than a 300% increase while the hydro rates generally are right where they were before, at least where I live.
Not sure it'll make much of a difference, but someone started a petition. If you want to sign it, here's the link: Sign the Petition
Also, it kinda sucks that we don't have CCS receptacles. Adapters that allow me to charge at up to 100 kW are not a viable option for me as they slow down the charging process. Tesla should at least offer a CCS retrofit so we can choose our provider. At a nearby Electrify Canada charger I could charge for $0.57/minute at up to 350 kW (I know the car doesn't support that, I'm just saying that the charger is capable of delivering 350 kW) if my car was equipped with a CCS receptacle. With a $4 monthly subscription (for those who regularly use DC chargers) the price goes further down to $0.44/minute.
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I disagree: it's still very worth it.....as long as you live in a community that has enough public chargers (a reasonable sized city) and don't do a lot of road trips. I did it for 2 years, and if I hadn't bought a cottage 375 km from home, I'd still be doing it. For most people, it would take an hour (summer) or two (winter) a week to charge the car at a public DCFC. Very much worthwhile to drive electric, in my opinion.
As for the Supercharger price increase, I too was very upset - as much by the lack of warning than I was by the price itself. I use them frequently (well, 3 or 4 times a month) on long trips.
RedMistress
Member
While it’s understandable that costs will increase over time, this was an unannounced 70% increase. I charge at home but make regular long distance trips and use Superchargers multiple times per week. The additional charging cost is substantial and lessens the value of a Tesla EV which we have all purchased assuming operating costs would partially offset the high initial investment. I’m disappointed in Tesla and surprised at their lack of communication.
I am not upset cause the last thing I need is to get upset at more things in my life !
It was not "unannounced", multiple Tesla "magazines"/news sites reported it before it went live. Tesla don't have a traditional Comms department it seems, so they cannot "announce".
I've seen many flare-ups like this on local facebook groups, you're not alone. But as many of us here, we've come to understand why it's happening and accept it.
I've seen many flare-ups like this on local facebook groups, you're not alone. But as many of us here, we've come to understand why it's happening and accept it.
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