Why isn't everyone as upset about the Supercharger increase as I am?

[Calliope]

this was an unannounced 70% increase.

Are you kidding? It went up about 300% at some speeds.......one week I was paying $0.43 per MINUTE at a Supercharger for about 130 kW/h, and the very next week, at the same charger, I was paying $1.25 for the same speed.

I don't at all understand why it's happening, other than they know they can get away with it. I accept it because it's better than the alternative, but I'm angry and attribute it to greed, not necessity.

Edited to note I changed payments per kW to per minute - my first posting of this said per kW in error, and GtiMart fortunately pointed that out.

 

[GtiMart]

You're probably not paying $1.25 per kWh... maybe per minute, but you get more than 1kWh during that minute. Look at @Big Earl 's post, you'll see the real price you pay.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

It was not "unannounced", multiple Tesla "magazines"/news sites reported it before it went live. Tesla don't have a traditional Comms department it seems, so they cannot "announce".

I've seen many flare-ups like this on local facebook groups, you're not alone. But as many of us here, we've come to understand why it's happening and accept it.

Should have emailed all owners. They just don't want to.

 

[Calliope]

$1.25 per kWh... maybe per minute,

Absolutely! My apologies. That's the per minute charge.

 

[Big Earl]

Are you kidding? It went up about 300% at some speeds.......one week I was paying $0.43 per MINUTE at a Supercharger for about 130 kW/h, and the very next week, at the same charger, I was paying $1.25 for the same speed.

I don't at all understand why it's happening, other than they know they can get away with it. I accept it because it's better than the alternative, but I'm angry and attribute it to greed, not necessity.

Edited to note I changed payments per kW to per minute - my first posting of this said per kW in error, and GtiMart fortunately pointed that out.

I don’t mean to be pedantic, but that’s a 200% increase, not 300%. You’re also mixing up kW and kWh. kW is power (like horsepower) and kWh is energy (like liters of fuel). Chargers are rated in kW and battery packs are rated in kWh.

Time based billing went up in the US recently, as well. However, prior to the increase, it was a fraction of the cost of energy-based billing. It was so low that they probably were just barely covering the their energy costs, let alone equipment and maintenance costs.

I personally think the increase on time-based billing is a bit too much - the pendulum has swung too far - but part of that might have to do with applying pressure on regulators to allow energy-based billing. This seems to be working, as I see there is a public petition to allow energy-based billing.

This is a good opportunity for apartment and condo dwellers to approach their property management offices to request destination charging for tenants.

 

[UncleCreepy]

Nevertheless, whenever I use a supercharger I make sure I get as much power out of it as I can.
The V3 superchargers around here used to cost $0.48 per minute (>60 kW, I usually stop charging at 200 kW), now it's $2/minute for the same power it's charging at or for the same amount of energy I'm receiving. In that case, it is a 300% increase.
Ymmv depending on the actual charging progress.

 

[GtiMart]

Yep, and 200kW @ 0.48$ per minute means you were paying barely 14.5c per kWh, getting 3.3kWh per minute. That's extremely close to residential prices. Tesla must have been in the red in many such situations.
V2 was probably not too bad but V3 must have hurt them.

 

[wayner]

You've bought into a proprietary system rather than a public standard. It's the same as Apple's various connectors over the years. And you are at the mercy of their whim.

It isn't really proprietary as Tela's can use third party chargers. If Tesla's could only be charged by Teala chargers then it would be proprietary.

 

[UncleCreepy]

Are you talking specifically about DC chargers or chargers in general? I agree with L1 and L2 charging, we can use any charger. But when it comes to L3, it practically is proprietary if a CCS adapter only allows me to charge at up to ~100kW, let alone Chademo adapters that allow for only 50 kW.
However, please let me know if there is a different adapter available that allows for higher consistent charge rates. I'd be willing to buy one.

 

[wayner]

I wasn't aware of those limitations as I have never used non-Tesla L3 charging. So I guess you can say that their are proprietary restriction on faster L3 charging.

That being said, I would still take a Tesla with these restrictions and a fairly extensive Supercharger network, over non-Tesla EVs with far fewer options for L3 charging, at least at the current time. Especially with free Supercharging.

 

[Calliope]

This is a good opportunity apartment and condo dwellers to approach their property management offices to request destination charging for tenants.

I good reason, but not necessarily a good opportunity - those management offices will have the same reasons and roadblocks that they had before. I had to move if I wanted to get the ability to charge my car in or at a condo building.

That being said, I would still take a Tesla with these restrictions and a fairly extensive Supercharger network, over non-Tesla EVs with far fewer options for L3 charging, at least at the current time.

I agree - if long(er) distance drives are a part of your routine, Tesla is still the best option.

 

[Vawlkus]

Mountain out of molehill IMHO, but as I rarely use the SC network, have had to use chademos at a premium in the past, and have FUSC, I can be considered biased.

 

[Big Earl]

Nevertheless, whenever I use a supercharger I make sure I get as much power out of it as I can.
The V3 superchargers around here used to cost $0.48 per minute (>60 kW, I usually stop charging at 200 kW), now it's $2/minute for the same power it's charging at or for the same amount of energy I'm receiving. In that case, it is a 300% increase.
Ymmv depending on the actual charging progress.

From my own experience, charge rate drops below 200 kW at around 30%. In order to get that high in the first place, the battery must be fully conditioned, which requires expending in the neighborhood of 5 kWh of energy to bring the pack up to temperature. This seems inconvenient and probably not as economical as it appears on the surface, since 5% - 30% is about 17 kWh, and you're using nearly a third of that to bring the pack up to temperature for a short charging session.

A recent 5% - 50% charge on my dual motor Model 3:

 

[rhumbliner]

You've bought into a proprietary system rather than a public standard.

Yep, a proprietary standard designed by knowledgeable engineers who simply wanted the best solution rather than a public standard developed by a committee of politicians and vested interests who’ve never really cared about the end user. Give me the proprietary standard any day.

 

[wayner]

I am surprised that Tesla is taking steps to open up their SC network to other vehicles. To me their SC network is a huge competitive advantage.

Or maybe they are just making token efforts and this will not happen for a long time.

 

[Big Earl]

I am surprised that Tesla is taking steps to open up their SC network to other vehicles. To me their SC network is a huge competitive advantage.

Or maybe they are just making token efforts and this will not happen for a long time.

Tesla's mission statement is "to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy." Opening up the world's best charging network to all EVs certainly does that. It also helps spread costs out across more users, which is a benefit to Tesla. Tesla has a massive order backlog, so making other EV products more attractive to consumers by allowing them to charge on the world's best network is a net positive for society and the planet; Tesla can't do it alone.

 

[Lon12]

I just did my first Calgary to Vancouver trip with my new Y last week. Outside temperatures around freezing. I have Scan My Tesla to watch the new battery preconditioning in action.
My 2018 3 would only start preconditioning around 20 minutes from the charger and barely get to 30C by the time I arrived. With the Y I noticed it started preconditioning 1:20 out from my first supercharge. It didn't heat the battery for long and I didn't notice what temperature it was targeting for that initial heating. It did heat again before my arrival and had the battery at almost 50C to start the charge. So I was able to be in the >200 kW price range. At that temperature it got up to almost 60C by the time I was done. Scan my Tesla shows an active cooling value around 60C. Preconditioning seems to use the front motor as well as the heat pump. You can see in this picture the front stator is at 49C (ignore the Battery Inlet value).

 

[Spiegels]

While the thread is US focused, there is a lot of good information in this thread.

Supercharger Pricing Map?

I understand the price for kwh can change at a location, but has anyone compiled a map of charging prices? Looking at my history of charging I can see very distinct rate changes by region. I thought I had seen a map or even just a list of prices previously but I'm not finding it now.

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Big Earl]

I just did my first Calgary to Vancouver trip with my new Y last week. Outside temperatures around freezing. I have Scan My Tesla to watch the new battery preconditioning in action.
My 2018 3 would only start preconditioning around 20 minutes from the charger and barely get to 30C by the time I arrived. With the Y I noticed it started preconditioning 1:20 out from my first supercharge. It didn't heat the battery for long and I didn't notice what temperature it was targeting for that initial heating. It did heat again before my arrival and had the battery at almost 50C to start the charge. So I was able to be in the >200 kW price range. At that temperature it got up to almost 60C by the time I was done. Scan my Tesla shows an active cooling value around 60C. Preconditioning seems to use the front motor as well as the heat pump. You can see in this picture the front stator is at 49C (ignore the Battery Inlet value).

View attachment 783955

Preconditioning for all cars has changed a bit. While, as you said, it used to start about 20-30 minutes out, it now starts an hour or more out, depending on temperature. It also uses quite a lot of energy, which makes multiple short charging stops less efficient and more expensive than fewer, longer charging stops.

 

[GtiMart]

Yeah, I don't know if it consumes more since it's on/off instead of fully on now... Still, the goal of supercharging is to go quick on road trips. Heat that sucker, charge fast and go on your way. It's also good for others as you don't hog the charger for long. Please everyone warm your batteries!