Why more superchargers alone can't prevent overcrowding

[chickensevil]

My point is that gas stations will spring out of nothingness where there is demand, because they make money. Superchargers do not. Tesla puts in superchargers because they have to or the demand for the Model S may wane.
Somewhere at Tesla, a bean counter tries to figure out how much money they need to spend on superchargers to keep the demand from falling. Every dollar they don't spend on superchargers they get to keep.
I don't believe that the 2K per car ( minus the cost of the hardware in the car ) goes into an account just for building and operating superchargers.

If supercharger stations could make a profit by themselves, and Tesla could get out of the business of building them, then I believe market forces would do a better job of getting them installed.
There are many routes I want to drive that Tesla has no plans to put supercharger service on, I hope somebody else gets the chance.
I don't want to see independent dealers selling Tesla cars ( unless they have to compete with factory stores ). But I think it would be a great thing to see independent superchargers.

My question for you would be, do you want it in dependant even if it meant you had to pay for it?

As it stands right now all parties involved get a really great deal.

Tesla is getting more than their monies worth in the 2k (you are probably right in that they don't have a "supercharger" account, but you know they are budgeting for it in their costs. They are going to keep spending under a certain amount to ensure that it isn't a drain on their profits. Break-even is what Elon has said to slightly positive.)

The location for install is getting a pretty decent deal. Even those at hotels are more likely to get a Tesla owner to stay at that hotel just because they put the charger there. Twice in my trip to FL I saw Tesla'so parked at a hotel charger knowing they were staying overnight there. And the shopping malls... holy cow the amount of money they are going to be pulling in that they wouldn't have otherwise. I spent so much money on pointless things on my trip just because I was bored and had nothing better to do.

Finally the driver gets a great deal in that you don't have to pay for driving. Now, if they could charge the same price (maybe slightly more) than I pay for electricity then fine, charge us money for use. But what you see, especially with what we have for public chargers now, is the price for use comes out to nearly the same price as if you were driving an ICE... where is the sense in that? There is no reason it should cost that much to charge your car. Part of that is the terrible business model and part of that is because thesee companies only do charging. Which for them means they have to provide 24/7 support for these things. Tesla is able to wrap all that in with their support for the car itself... making those people that are on call overall cheaper for each service they are providing to the customer.

I am all for a third party initiative, but it should be close to similar to how Tesla is doing it now. Unless they can come up with someveryone other model that is even cheaper for the consumer.

 

[richkae]

I'm not sure you are aware of the fact that gas stations are declining and they make very little on gas and there has been a 25% decline in convenience store sales. The consumption of gas in this country has declined 20% since 2005.

I'm not saying that gas stations are growing, or that the health of that sector is good or improving. I am sure that the marginal locations are failing faster than they ever have.

I am saying that they exist as viable businesses independent of the oil companies or car companies, and that they will spring up out of nothingness to serve a region that has enough demand. The same is not true of superchargers.

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My question for you would be, do you want it in dependant even if it meant you had to pay for it?

Yes. I want the service in places that Tesla does not currently plan to go. I am willing to pay for the service.

As it stands right now all parties involved get a really great deal.

I may be getting a great deal, but I do not have service everywhere I want it. So it's not the deal I want.

Tesla is getting more than their monies worth in the 2k (you are probably right in that they don't have a "supercharger" account, but you know they are budgeting for it in their costs. They are going to keep spending under a certain amount to ensure that it isn't a drain on their profits. Break-even is what Elon has said to slightly positive.)

The location for install is getting a pretty decent deal. Even those at hotels are more likely to get a Tesla owner to stay at that hotel just because they put the charger there. Twice in my trip to FL I saw Tesla'so parked at a hotel charger knowing they were staying overnight there. And the shopping malls... holy cow the amount of money they are going to be pulling in that they wouldn't have otherwise. I spent so much money on pointless things on my trip just because I was bored and had nothing better to do.

I agree that 3rd parties who install superchargers are benefitting from the Tesla owners that visit them. I have no way to know what their costs are or how to measure the benefit.
I hope it is great enough to encourage more.

Finally the driver gets a great deal in that you don't have to pay for driving. Now, if they could charge the same price (maybe slightly more) than I pay for electricity then fine, charge us money for use. But what you see, especially with what we have for public chargers now, is the price for use comes out to nearly the same price as if you were driving an ICE... where is the sense in that? There is no reason it should cost that much to charge your car. Part of that is the terrible business model and part of that is because thesee companies only do charging. Which for them means they have to provide 24/7 support for these things. Tesla is able to wrap all that in with their support for the car itself... making those people that are on call overall cheaper for each service they are providing to the customer.

I am all for a third party initiative, but it should be close to similar to how Tesla is doing it now. Unless they can come up with someveryone other model that is even cheaper for the consumer.

You are not looking at all the costs. The cost to me is that I have a ~$100K car that can not take me everywhere I want to go. If I could pay $50 to supercharge to enable an infrequent trip, then that has incredible value to me. My overall cost will remain tiny, because I will continue to charge at home for 95% of my driving - where my electricity cost is insignificant.

I don't care how the superchargers spring up to cover *every* route I want to take. I don't mind paying to supercharge on some or all of those routes. I want to be able to drive them all, and Tesla's current plan will not do it.

 

[chickensevil]

I think you might be just a little bit impatient. It takes time to build it out no matter who is trying to do it. Permitting and site selection is the longest and most difficult part of this process and is really what is slowing them down or holding them back. There are even interstate gaps that have no "plans" to be filled (western VA I'm looking at you... and poor Texas). I am certain the map shown at the end of 2015 is not the end... why would it be?

Rome wasn't built in a day, and heck even the highway system we have now took many years to build out, and Gas stations? I mean that all took a very long time to build out. This is like child's play comparatively and it shows by how fast they are moving. I suggest you give it some time. Trust me, I am antsy to get a critical part of WV built out so I can drive home to see my parents... so I know how you feel about wanting the full freedom to drive anywhere there are roads. Just give them a little time (and I honestly don't think any 3rd party or otherwise has shown an ounce of intelligence that Tesla has in its site selection... so I would rather just wait on someone that actually seems to know what they are doing.)

 

[ecarfan]

Take the long view. Tesla has just started a long process of building out the Supercharger network. We are all early adopters in the EV revolution. For a small company they are moving very fast. Of course the process will continue for years after what their map shows for 2015.

By 2017 there will be Superchargers everywhere in North America, Europe, China, and other places, and destination charging will be easier. Charging will be a non-issue and those who became owners in 2012 and 2013 and 2014 will reminisce about the "old days" when they had to stretch to get to a destination.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

Teo, your assumptions miss a couple of critical points:

• Your numbers should scale from the number of Tesla's using superchargers on a given day, not the number of cars manufactured. Don't forget, the average Tesla owner charges at home more than 99% of the time.

• If Tesla is successful in having the supercharger become an industry standard for fast charging, the number of superchargers will rise exponentially—though they may not always be branded with Tesla's name.

I predict that your perspective on this will change after you've taken delivery and lived with your Model S for a few months.