TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Why not a 380hp/188hp motor S85D?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by mdevp, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. mdevp

    mdevp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    nj
    Seeing that the S85D has two 188hp motors, do you guys think that they prototyped a 380hp/188hp version of the S85D? I would think this is the easiest config to setup, just put a front smaller motor/inverter in the existing S85. Do you think that this version would have stole sales from the P85D? It would have been so nice to have the performance upgrade and 19in wheels....
     
  2. CliffG

    CliffG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    New Jersey
    somehow I think they get the difference in the preferences between S85 and P85 buyers - S85 buyers being more "practical" (if that can be applied to any Model S buyer), and P85 buyers being willing to pop for more pizzazz. Note that the S85D is supposed to have greater range than the P85D, while both have the same top speed. S85: 20 miles further, P85: 2 seconds faster to 60 mph. Crudely put.
     
  3. mdevp

    mdevp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    nj
    I admit, I was hoping that someone on the forums who has an anonymous "friend" from tesla would say "yeah they made one, but the problem was.." and explain. It's just that from reading people's reactions, this version would be the perfect setup and the easiest setup for Tesla to produce, test and bring to market. You'd have the 19in wheels, ~568hp, maybe 15mi increased range, more flexibility in option choices and obviously pay less than 14k for the upgrade. I think ALOT of the people would jump at this "not to hot, not too cold" version.
     
  4. SCDrJ

    SCDrJ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    I too was hoping the S85D would have been just a little "hotter", although I think the AWD is going to make the car perform very nicely indeed on top of the small performance increase.

    When changing my order, I asked my sales rep this very question: "Why didn't they just add the smaller 188hp motor to the front of the existing S85 and keep the RWD version's motor, so its performance was closer to the current P85?" The answer was that they toyed with that idea and there was a slight range penalty which TM felt was not going to be tolerated by customers in the S85 model. He wasn't sure if it was a weight issue or the S85 inverter.
     
  5. invisik

    invisik Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    As a S85S owner, I think that's too much HP for the base 85 car. I agree with the other poster it needs more differentiation from the P85S. While I would welcome more HP for the same price, 0-60 in 5-ish seconds is plenty fast for daily and family driving.

    I think the additional range is the more important factor in the S85D. I've driven RWD cars since forever and am used to having snow tires, etc, so as the 0-60 is only .2 seconds faster, I really don't have a preference to AWD, and the interior/exterior is identical (sadly), then I'd only do it because of extra range. It's a more complicated car, more to break/fix.

    Just my take on it.

    -m
     
  6. glhs272

    glhs272 Unnamed plug faced villian

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Burlington, WI
    My guess is that variation is so close to the P85D variation that it just wasn't worth it. It would likely have the same range penalty that the p85D has versus the S85D due to the larger rear motor. The performance would have been very close to the P85D and the cost would likely be higher than with the two smaller motors. In short too close to P85D in performance and cost, might as well just be the P85D version or S85D.
     
  7. mdevp

    mdevp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    nj
    I thought of this as well but doesn't the P85D have a 10mi range increase with the more powerful motor/inverters? And to the question of being to much HP, they could probably detune the 380hp motor a little for range, I agree, but man I still think people who want a more power, more option flexibility, but don't want to go all out P85D would go crazy for this setup.
     
  8. AMN

    AMN Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    210
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    I think they referred to 85D having those extra 10 miles of range which is possible by using 2 smaller motors. With extra 291 lbs and more thrust, P85D will for sure get less than 265miles (EPA). I am gonna predict 250.
     
  9. mdevp

    mdevp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    nj
    Yeah, this is probably right, I agree. But for guys like myself, who want more power, willing to sell their beloved S85 and take the financial hit, the only option is the P85D and that's just a little too financially unreasonable for me. (more my wife lol)
     
  10. Olle

    Olle Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Messages:
    333
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    @OP: It already has what you are asking for, its called the P85D...
    PS. Almost, it has a little more power upfront as you know and 21" wheels and other goodies.
     
  11. SCDrJ

    SCDrJ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Exactly. An extra 30k for my configuration was just too much.
     
  12. mdevp

    mdevp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    nj
    Thought they said 85D- 30mi increase P85D- 10mi increase. But hey, you have the p85+ and en route to a p85D and X, so I hope you start a super thread describing all of the differences! I'd be first in line to read. :smile:
     
  13. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,919
    Location:
    Los Angeles

    This argument gets repeated ad nauseam.

    Dual motor is far less complicated than conventional AWD.

    Electric motors are extremely reliable.

    If one motor or motor assembly breaks you can keep using it as a two wheel drive car.

    Almost nobody bought the very simple Th!nk City electric car.

    Even in poor countries like India the very simple Tata Nano and Datsun Go are not selling very well.
     
  14. mhpr262

    mhpr262 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    Old Europe
    If we ask Elon nicely, maybe we can get an S85D+ .... with two 220hp motors. That would fit nicely between the normal S and the P. No weight penalty either and we would get to keep all of the additional range over the P.
     
  15. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,578
    Actually, I think there shouldn't be a P85 anymore. The existing P85D should be called the P85D+, and the OP's suggestion should be come the P85D replacing the P85 completely.

    The P85D' would then have the 380hp rear motor + the 188hp front motor with better range and come standard with 19" wheels and the current P85 suspension.
     
  16. uselesslogin

    uselesslogin Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,300
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    The Canadian site has all the current ranges @105kph. To sum it up the 85 gets 460km (285 miles) and the 85D gets 10 miles more than that and the P85D gets 10 miles less than that. The EPA tested the first cars produced in 2012 which were several hundred pounds heavier than the current version.

    Model S Design Studio | Tesla Motors
     
  17. SCDrJ

    SCDrJ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Could likely happen once the P85D $130k orders slow.
     
  18. fluxemag

    fluxemag Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    342
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This is the first thing I noticed with the D option as well. My best guess for using two smaller motors is that otherwise they would have had to upgrade the standard inverter to deliver additional power. Just look at the price difference in the P85D upgrade compared to the S85D upgrade cost. The inverter is going to be one of the most expensive pieces on the car. Range gain from the dual motor is probably a bigger priority than power and speed gains for the 60 and 85 lines as well.
     
  19. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    5,785
    Location:
    Connecticut
    #19 HankLloydRight, Oct 16, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
    I recently emailed both ownership@ and sales@ about this very issue.

    I suggested going back to the separate P85 and P85+ type packages, with both a P85D (no + options) and a P85D+ (the current "P85D" model) to parallel the old P85 and P85+ trim levels, but with AWD options. That would provide people with some level of performance, but the option to have 19" rims and not all the (+) features that not everyone needs/wants.

    I received two responses:

    and

     
  20. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,568
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Yep, and the 20 miles is infinitely more valuable to me than 2 seconds faster to 60. In fact, I wouldn't pay any premium for the 2 second advantage (and wouldn't have to with the two models available).
     

Share This Page