Why not a bigger Batt

[meanwhileinND]

@meanwhileinND I do get where you're coming from. I got our Tesla in March 2014 in Idaho. It was a charging wasteland. They delivered it from the Portland Oregon service center, which was the closest one, at 430 miles. And there were no Superchargers within that 430 miles. For the first year and a half, there were still no Superchargers I could drive to within the full range of the car. So I get that is the situation you're in right now. I did go on a couple of trips during that time to Logan Utah and Salt Lake City. The drive back from Salt Lake City took 14 hours instead of the 5 or 5 and a half it would normally take, but I was doing it on purpose for the adventure.

But this is a temporary situation in North Dakota. People have already pointed out the impracticalities of adding another 1,000 pounds of battery to the vehicle, but the other way to look at it is that you're probably only going to have to deal with this lack of Superchargers for another year or two, and then after that, the 250 mile range or so will be fine. Yeah, I went through my couple of years or gnashing my teeth as I read on this forum of people in other places in the country discussing which of their choice of two or three Superchargers they should use when I couldn't get to any, but now, the tide has turned, and they are pissed off about having to wait in line, and I've still never seen a Supercharger full, including a 5,000+ mile road trip across the country. Flyover country is nicely uncrowded, so you'll have it good once they get those built.

 

[meanwhileinND]

The 2 superchargers I have used in Clearwater mn, and Baxter Mn both were unoccupied when I stopped. So ya there not a bunch of Teslas around. It's really fun talking to folks and giving ride alongs. So that makes the experience pretty darn fun.

 

[Rocky_H]

The 2 superchargers I have used in Clearwater mn, and Baxter Mn both were unoccupied when I stopped. So ya there not a bunch of Teslas around. It's really fun talking to folks and giving ride alongs. So that makes the experience pretty darn fun.

I kind of miss the really cool times when there weren't Superchargers on I-84, and my 14-50 outlet on Plugshare was the fastest charging in Boise, so Tesla owners would stop by my house, and we would go hang out as they were on their travel adventures.

 

[mattack4000]

You can have chargers within 30 miles of the house, problem is that you can’t use most of them as they are usually full

 

[jaguar36]

You can have chargers within 30 miles of the house, problem is that you can’t use most of them as they are usually full

If you're within 30 miles of your house, just charge at home.

 

[mattack4000]

If you're within 30 miles of your house, just charge at home.

What if I need that last 30 to make it home or I need a quick charge..

 

[jaguar36]

What if I need that last 30 to make it home or I need a quick charge..

You're going to drive 30 miles to get a quick charge?

If you're coming back, you could have just charged at some place closer to your destination.

 

[Saghost]

What if I need that last 30 to make it home or I need a quick charge..

While that can happen, it is very much the exception.

I have two Superchargers within twenty miles of home now. In more than two years, I've only stopped at one of those, and only once - on the day I took delivery, to make sure writing was working correctly.

(The ones 60 to 80 miles away I've stopped at dozens of times.)

 

[Rocky_H]

Yep, that's a long time saying: "The most important Supercharger to a Tesla owner is the one 100 miles away."

 

[mattack4000]

While that can happen, it is very much the exception.

I have two Superchargers within twenty miles of home now. In more than two years, I've only stopped at one of those, and only once - on the day I took delivery, to make sure writing was working correctly.

(The ones 60 to 80 miles away I've stopped at dozens of times.)

I used the car in the morning my wife wants it for evening. How am I going to fill up 70% at home in an hour or two? Everyone’s situation is different. I was simply saying you can have all the superchargers near you, but they could all be useless as they are all full

 

[Saghost]

I used the car in the morning my wife wants it for evening. How am I going to fill up 70% at home in an hour or two? Everyone’s situation is different. I was simply saying you can have all the superchargers near you, but they could all be useless as they are all full

So between the two of you, you're expecting to put between three hundred and five hundred miles per day on the car? (implied by the need to gain 70% between the uses and a 200-300 mile range.) That's 100k to 200k per year...

As you say, every situation is different, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that user exists and is on TMC - but my point was they are a pretty exceptional edge case.

In a few years the Supercharger Network will probably have the density to support them in most places, too.

 

[jboy210]

Grand Forks, ND.So the N.E. part of the state.

Looks like they are planing on putting a Supercharger in Grand Forks and Fargo. At least they are listed as planned on the Tesla site. Supercharger | Tesla

I read here, Electric car owners to power up in Alexandria, that Alexandria, MN approved one at a Target. If you have a Target nearby you might check with the management. ( And hint that they should hurry up.) By me, SF Bay Area, a number of the Superchargers are at Targets so there is definitely some sort of synergy between the two companies.

 

[Rocky_H]

I used the car in the morning my wife wants it for evening. How am I going to fill up 70% at home in an hour or two? Everyone’s situation is different. I was simply saying you can have all the superchargers near you, but they could all be useless as they are all full

So between the two of you, you're expecting to put between three hundred and five hundred miles per day on the car? (implied by the need to gain 70% between the uses and a 200-300 mile range.)

I'm not expecting it to be "per day", because this isn't being proposed as a daily occurrence, but the situation is pretty far-fetched anyway. This would be about 200 miles per person in both the first and second use. 210 miles at 70 miles per hour is 3 hours for round numbers. So each person is going to be doing 3 hours of driving in the morning and evening, and neither one is going to have any time at all to spare to stop by a Supercharger at any time during the day? Having to wait for a bit isn't "useless". Some people just make up stuff to be mad and tell people things won't work.

 

[mattack4000]

210 miles? I have a better chance of seeing the yeti than getting that in normal driving. A round trip from Sj to sf with one or two small detour is 130 miles. She wants to go back into the city in the evening with her friends, what am I gonna do, leave her with 50% and say drive 50mph and hypermill. Total nonsense. I would never depend on the supercharger because I don’t like wasting time. They are there for emergencies.

 

[Rocky_H]

210 miles? I have a better chance of seeing the yeti than getting that in normal driving. A round trip from Sj to sf with one or two small detour is 130 miles. She wants to go back into the city in the evening with her friends, what am I gonna do, leave her with 50% and say drive 50mph and hypermill. Total nonsense. I would never depend on the supercharger because I don’t like wasting time. They are there for emergencies.

You are just continuing to make yourself look worse. Round trip from SJ to SF is 9 Superchargers each way for 18 opportunities to use the fastest charging that exists on the planet. And you're going to throw a fit and refuse to avail yourself of this amazing resource, and then blame the car for being deficient?

 

[mattack4000]

You are just continuing to make yourself look worse. Round trip from SJ to SF is 9 Superchargers each way for 18 opportunities to use the fastest charging that exists on the planet. And you're going to throw a fit and refuse to avail yourself of this amazing resource, and then blame the car for being deficient?

WTF are you talking about? I am talking the chargers, not the car. Most of those charges between the two cities are usually full during the day, render them useless unless you get lucky.

 

[KBurbridge14]

Im driving the Model X D, rated at 295 or so in ideal conditions. Nearest supercharger is about 260 miles. Our area (North Dakota) has been waiting for some closer SC installations. Why cant they add another 25, 50Kwh battery packs in there. Give me a car that gets 400 miles per charge and i'll be happy.

I think the correct question might be: "when will the battery technology and efficiency improve enough to approach 350-400 miles of range while keeping the same battery footprint?"

 

[bob_p]

We've likely reached the point of diminishing returns in battery pack size - other manufacturers seem to be shooting for ranges between 200-300 miles.

Increasing battery pack capacity beyond that increases cost and vehicle weight - and likely addresses an increasingly smaller market segment. That doesn't mean there won't be vehicles with more range (like the Roadster 2.0), but those will probably be focused on smaller markets - willing to accept the higher costs.

Assuming Tesla has superchargers spaced 75 to 150 miles apart, and present in every major city - the biggest impact they can have is with improvements in charging - something they've planned to do with the V3 supercharger. If they can reduce most supercharging stops down to 10-15 minutes, that will have much larger impact than going to the expense of introducing larger battery packs.

 

[Saghost]

We've likely reached the point of diminishing returns in battery pack size - other manufacturers seem to be shooting for ranges between 200-300 miles.

Increasing battery pack capacity beyond that increases cost and vehicle weight - and likely addresses an increasingly smaller market segment. That doesn't mean there won't be vehicles with more range (like the Roadster 2.0), but those will probably be focused on smaller markets - willing to accept the higher costs.

Assuming Tesla has superchargers spaced 75 to 150 miles apart, and present in every major city - the biggest impact they can have is with improvements in charging - something they've planned to do with the V3 supercharger. If they can reduce most supercharging stops down to 10-15 minutes, that will have much larger impact than going to the expense of introducing larger battery packs.

I'm not entirely sure that faster charging is always better.

There's a philosophy of use dynamic change in there somewhere, and I suspect it lives near that ten to fifteen minutes you quoted.

As charging becomes faster, at some point it'll go from "plug in the car and go off and do other things" (eat, explore, use restroom, etc,) to "plug in the car and wait until it's done" - because there's not enough time to get to and finish the other things.

That's good for overall throughput, but I'm not convinced it's a better overall experience.

Of course, if Tesla has their way, we'll get it back in a few years - then it'll be the car drops you at the door of the other entertainment, drives to a stall and plugs in, charges, and comes back to a holding area to wait for you...

 

[meanwhileinND]

Looks like they are planing on putting a Supercharger in Grand Forks and Fargo. At least they are listed as planned on the Tesla site. Supercharger | Tesla

I read here, Electric car owners to power up in Alexandria, that Alexandria, MN approved one at a Target. If you have a Target nearby you might check with the management. ( And hint that they should hurry up.) By me, SF Bay Area, a number of the Superchargers are at Targets so there is definitely some sort of synergy between the two companies.[/QUO

Well it does look like target will have one by next summer in Alexandria. There might be some pressure to get the Fargo-Winnipeg corridor done. Grand Forks could be in a bit of a dead zone. Although it would help with east and west traffic on US Hwy 2. Supply and demand. Truely awesome car