Why not a bigger Batt

[meanwhileinND]

Im driving the Model X D, rated at 295 or so in ideal conditions. Nearest supercharger is about 260 miles. Our area (North Dakota) has been waiting for some closer SC installations. Why cant they add another 25, 50Kwh battery packs in there. Give me a car that gets 400 miles per charge and i'll be happy.

 

[brkaus]

It would add significant weight which would reduce efficiency. End up with diminishing returns. Have to add more than 25% to get 25% additional range.

As battery tech improves they will push range. Agree that ~400 miles would be fantastic.

 

[jaguar36]

I think the short answer is that the X is based on the S design from 2012 and there just isn't any more room for a bigger pack. the original pack was 85kwh and they've already managed to stuff another 20% into it.

The longer answer is that the market for a pack greater than 100kwh is small. As pack size increases, weight increases resulting in diminishing returns for each kwh of battery added. In addition to the weight increase you lose cargo space, and most importantly price goes up. So you're talking a substantial jump in price for a smaller increase in range. Look at the price/range difference for the 75 vs 100. Its a hard sell for the 100 already, imagine how worse it would be for a 120. I'm sure there is some market for a larger pack, and I think we'll see one when the S/X gets redesigned, but until then, barring any significant breakthroughs in battery chemistry I wouldn't expect to see a bigger pack.

 

[Saghost]

If batteries were free and weighed nothing and took up no space, it'd be a no brainer. Sadly, none of these are true.

Adding 50kWh to the car is another ~700 pounds, which means a twelve percent increase in rolling resistance - a bigger effect in town than on the freeway, but a factor for both, and an efficiency loss you pay every day, for every trip.

You also need a safe place to keep it all, which the current cars don't have without a substantial redesign.

All engineering design is tradeoffs. In this case, you'll pay a bunch of money and a lot of weight/efficiency to gain mileage at the far end that won't be used for 99+% of trips with the car.

There are undoubtedly customers with extreme use cases for which the trade-off is worth it. Whether there are enough of them to make it profitable for Tesla to design and build such a version is a question. My personal guess is there aren't, but I could be wrong.

One of the more intriguing ideas I've heard put forward a few times is a Frunk mounted primary battery as a range extender. Aluminum-air batteries are already an order of magnitude more energy dense than lithium ion, with a fourfold or more increase still possible. Putting a 50 kg pack in the Frunk that adds a hundred kWh or more gives the option for an occasional long trip (but you have to replace the plates to "recharge" it.)

Realistically, I think finding places to charge the car every few hundred miles is more practical.

 

[meanwhileinND]

It makes traveling challenging. I have used a DCFC before. SC have them beat by a mile. I know that there isn't many Tesla's in my area. So It's not a priority. One of the main factors in choosing the car is the widespread very fast charging stations. Other automakers aren't really in the game if they don't put up charging stations. Fine if your going to stay over night and charge. Sooner or not to much later it will come. Just as you have a gas station at every small town, the more SC the better. But ya a 400 mile batt would sure be sweet!

 

[ewoodrick]

Im driving the Model X D, rated at 295 or so in ideal conditions. Nearest supercharger is about 260 miles. Our area (North Dakota) has been waiting for some closer SC installations. Why cant they add another 25, 50Kwh battery packs in there. Give me a car that gets 400 miles per charge and i'll be happy.

Why not another 100kWH?

The average American commute is 26 minutes per day. The number of trips that are over 300 miles are really low.

The solution is that you are a little bit ahead of the times to be a Tesla owner in North Dakota. Regrettably you will probably just need to wait until there is a little better Supercharger coverage. While there indeed a number of users that would pay the extra $5-20k for bigger batteries, it needs to be compared to the number of Model 3 users not willing to pay for the Extended Range battery today.

Maybe the Tesla users in the state should push the legislature to make it easier for people to buy more EVs and charging infrastructure.

 

[jboy210]

Why not another 100kWH?

The average American commute is 26 minutes per day. The number of trips that are over 300 miles are really low.

The solution is that you are a little bit ahead of the times to be a Tesla owner in North Dakota. Regrettably you will probably just need to wait until there is a little better Supercharger coverage. While there indeed a number of users that would pay the extra $5-20k for bigger batteries, it needs to be compared to the number of Model 3 users not willing to pay for the Extended Range battery today.

Maybe the Tesla users in the state should push the legislature to make it easier for people to buy more EVs and charging infrastructure.

Agreed. I don't run out of range with 75 KW pack. And I suspect most of my neighbors that own Teslas don't either. 75 Kw is more than enough for a 150 daily commute which in major population centers would represent 3-4 hours of driving during commute hours.

We are just at the beginning of the EV revolution. And over time more and more high-speed charging stations will appear.

It would be interesting to revisit this question in 3-4 years time.

 

[meanwhileinND]

Why not another 100kWH?

The average American commute is 26 minutes per day. The number of trips that are over 300 miles are really low.

The solution is that you are a little bit ahead of the times to be a Tesla owner in North Dakota. Regrettably you will probably just need to wait until there is a little better Supercharger coverage. While there indeed a number of users that would pay the extra $5-20k for bigger batteries, it needs to be compared to the number of Model 3 users not willing to pay for the Extended Range battery today.

Maybe the Tesla users in the state should push the legislature to make it easier for people to buy more EVs and charging infrastructure.

Not in this state. trust me.

 

[jboy210]

Not in this state. trust me.

Change starts with one pissed off person. Be the change!

 

[bob_p]

Most daily driving uses less charge than the S/X 75 or Model 3 SR battery packs.

For long distance trips, drivers will typically (or should) stop after 3 to 4 hours of driving. For driving at typical highway speeds, the 100 battery packs have more than enough charge to support that.

Even when towing a 3500-5000 pound trailer, an X 100D will go about 3 hours before needing charging (higher energy consumption at lower speed).

As long as Tesla has superchargers located no further apart than 125-150 miles, the 100 battery packs are large enough (even when towing) to support almost all driving. And when not towing, the 75 battery packs can go further between charges.

With Tesla's push towards profitability and increasing competitors, it seems likely that even if Tesla is able to make larger battery packs, at least for the S/3/X/Y models, they'll likely focus on driving down the costs & purchase price and use battery advances to increase profit margin per vehicle.

Roadster 2.0, Semi and pickup truck will likely all have much larger battery packs - because those vehicles will need larger battery packs to support driving at higher speeds or with greater loads.

 

[DCGOO]

To say nothing about the load carrying capacity of only 1,366 lb.
GVWR 6788 - Curb weight 5421 = 1366 max carrying capacity (includes all passengers and cargo). If you drop in a second 1300 lb battery, your eight year old driver might overload the vehicle.

 

[PJFW8]

Most daily driving uses less charge than the S/X 75 or Model 3 SR battery packs.

For long distance trips, drivers will typically (or should) stop after 3 to 4 hours of driving. For driving at typical highway speeds, the 100 battery packs have more than enough charge to support that.

Even when towing a 3500-5000 pound trailer, an X 100D will go about 3 hours before needing charging (higher energy consumption at lower speed).

As long as Tesla has superchargers located no further apart than 125-150 miles, the 100 battery packs are large enough (even when towing) to support almost all driving. And when not towing, the 75 battery packs can go further between charges.

With Tesla's push towards profitability and increasing competitors, it seems likely that even if Tesla is able to make larger battery packs, at least for the S/3/X/Y models, they'll likely focus on driving down the costs & purchase price and use battery advances to increase profit margin per vehicle.

Roadster 2.0, Semi and pickup truck will likely all have much larger battery packs - because those vehicles will need larger battery packs to support driving at higher speeds or with greater loads.

But superchargers are not 125 to 150 miles apart in many parts of the country.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I think the short answer is that the X is based on the S design from 2012 and there just isn't any more room for a bigger pack. the original pack was 85kwh and they've already managed to stuff another 20% into it.

The longer answer is that the market for a pack greater than 100kwh is small. As pack size increases, weight increases resulting in diminishing returns for each kwh of battery added. In addition to the weight increase you lose cargo space, and most importantly price goes up. So you're talking a substantial jump in price for a smaller increase in range. Look at the price/range difference for the 75 vs 100. Its a hard sell for the 100 already, imagine how worse it would be for a 120. I'm sure there is some market for a larger pack, and I think we'll see one when the S/X gets redesigned, but until then, barring any significant breakthroughs in battery chemistry I wouldn't expect to see a bigger pack.

The roadster has a 200 KWh pack in a smaller form factor. I would trade in both our model s’s for a 200 KWh pack.

 

[Rocky_H]

@meanwhileinND I do get where you're coming from. I got our Tesla in March 2014 in Idaho. It was a charging wasteland. They delivered it from the Portland Oregon service center, which was the closest one, at 430 miles. And there were no Superchargers within that 430 miles. For the first year and a half, there were still no Superchargers I could drive to within the full range of the car. So I get that is the situation you're in right now. I did go on a couple of trips during that time to Logan Utah and Salt Lake City. The drive back from Salt Lake City took 14 hours instead of the 5 or 5 and a half it would normally take, but I was doing it on purpose for the adventure.

But this is a temporary situation in North Dakota. People have already pointed out the impracticalities of adding another 1,000 pounds of battery to the vehicle, but the other way to look at it is that you're probably only going to have to deal with this lack of Superchargers for another year or two, and then after that, the 250 mile range or so will be fine. Yeah, I went through my couple of years or gnashing my teeth as I read on this forum of people in other places in the country discussing which of their choice of two or three Superchargers they should use when I couldn't get to any, but now, the tide has turned, and they are pissed off about having to wait in line, and I've still never seen a Supercharger full, including a 5,000+ mile road trip across the country. Flyover country is nicely uncrowded, so you'll have it good once they get those built.

 

[Saghost]

But superchargers are not 125 to 150 miles apart in many parts of the country.

Yet.

 

[SSedan]

Little more than a year ago I bought my car and live near Green Bay WI, had to drive several hours to get to the car supercharge close to where I bought it and then make it home. I had a temporary supercharger setup a hour NW of me a location on the lakeshore an hour and a half southwest of me. Nothing that was really useful. In the little more than a year since, the temporary site was moved and expanded to permanent, sites went up 30minutes north and south of me, the site I charged at the day I bought the car got a second larger location down the road, they added a site on the southside of Milwaukee. Seeing destination chargers popup too.

Wisconsin is one of those states with no direct selling too. I have to go 3 hours to Chicago or 5 hours to Minneapolis for service yet they sunk real money into infrastructure here anyway.

As others have said you are just an early adopter, give it some time and the charging infrastructure will hit

 

[jeffro01]

Not in this state. trust me.

Being from the midwest I get you 100%... Heck my hometown has zero superchargers within a drivable distance with a 100D charged to 100%... (okay you can get there but just barely and without anyplace to charge, and there aren't any, you'd be stuck there)

The reality is simple but aggravating and that's essentially population density and the need to be on, or very close, to major arteries for those passing through.

Jeff

 

[Saghost]

Being from the midwest I get you 100%... Heck my hometown has zero superchargers within a drivable distance with a 100D charged to 100%... (okay you can get there but just barely and without anyplace to charge, and there aren't any, you'd be stuck there)

Where is your hometown? Looking at the supercharge.info maps, I would have thought the only part of the entire continental US that was true of at this point is northern North Dakota and northeastern Montana...

 

[xyeahtony]

Im driving the Model X D, rated at 295 or so in ideal conditions. Nearest supercharger is about 260 miles. Our area (North Dakota) has been waiting for some closer SC installations. Why cant they add another 25, 50Kwh battery packs in there. Give me a car that gets 400 miles per charge and i'll be happy.

There's no room. the 100kwh battery already pushes the limit of the pack. This was a pack that was originally designed to have 85kwh worth of modules.

 

[meanwhileinND]

Where is your hometown? Looking at the supercharge.info maps, I would have thought the only part of the entire continental US that was true of at this point is northern North Dakota and northeastern Montana...

Grand Forks, ND.So the N.E. part of the state.