Why not buy a Mustang Mach-E?

[brkaus]

Personal experience. I have 2 cars, ICE and EV. I live in Austin, TX, the price of a gallon is less than $1.7 per gallon. Electricity is 12c per kWh.
Driving EV is about half the price of the gas (home charging only). My ICE SUV drives more than 20 miles per gallon. 12K miles per year on ICE cost me about $1,000. For EV it will be 3 miles per kWh, $480. So each year I save $520, less than 50$ per month. This is negligible. If you use supercharges - the cost of driving per mile will become the same as gas.

I try to have cars for 3-4 years and have a full warranty + maintenance covered during these years. You get a very decent ICE car for 50K,
with good looking interior and safety features, including ADAS L2.5. So comparing apples to apples, I choose EV because it is fun to drive, but definitely not because it is cheaper.

P.S. If you leave in CA, drive 30k miles per year, want to own the car for 8 years - it will be a different story of course.

Also in Austin. We got in on an electric plan that gives unlimited 50a (40a actual) charging between 7pm->2pm for $30/month. We have a Model S, Model 3, and a Leaf. Definitely saving money over gas. Of course, much more savings pre-pandemic. Our driving mileage has gone way down.

 

[MXLRplus]

Even though I don't pay for electricity our EVs, they do in fact cost more than our other cars. This might only apply to California though.
There is no parity in insurance rates or initial price. And initial price is what controls the tax burden put on the vehicles by the state. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

But that has nothing to do with the eMustang. It will suffer nearly as bad as a Tesla in TCO. At least it gets Federal tax relief unlike Tesla and GM.

 

[kmacm20]

During my early-summer car shopping that culminated in buying a LRAWD / no FSD MY, I was looking for a medium size S/CUV that I’m planning to keep for at least six years (i.e., somewhere between 60-80 thousand miles minimum). I won’t go into details of my requirements, but I think they were reasonable for my family. When I started shopping, a Tesla wasn’t even on my radar. In the end, the main competitor to the MY was the Audi Q5; I also looked at the Q3 and the Mazda CX-5, but neither had the back seat legroom I required. Having good quickness was a key requirement, and surprisingly enough, that ruled out a lot of vehicles in the medium sized C/SUV market.

The Q5 and MY are comparable in price, especially when the EV incentives are considered. The Q5 is quite a nice vehicle, arguably a step up from the MY in luxury terms; unfortunately, I’m quite familiar with the maintenance requirements and costs that come with that class of vehicle. Audi does not have any complimentary service; you can buy discounts on scheduled service, but it’s still not cheap, and you can count on a full brake job every 35,000 to 40,000 miles, at about $2000 a pop. The transmission service, which I believe is also every 40,000 miles, will also run several hundred dollars at least. On the Tesla side, three really isn’t scheduled maintenance per se; there’s tire rotation and replacement and brake fluid changes, but with good use of regen braking, I’d expect the brakes on the MY to last at least twice as long as on the Q5. Advantage Tesla, unless it turns out to be unreliable outside of the warranty period. My rough estimate is that, over six years, the MY comes out ahead on required maintenance by about $4000.

As far as fuel costs go: I haven’t seen premium (which the Audi requires) going for less than $3.40 per gallon around here, even in the depths of the gas price cuts. And it will go back up. But for sake of argument, let’s say it stabilizes at $3.50 per gallon in coastal SoCal. Home recharging is $0.09 per kWh with a $16/month service fee. Assuming 1000 miles per month at 280 kWh per mile (what I’ve been getting), and 95% of the time I can recharge at home and a Supercharger for the rest, and my pre-Tesla electricity use wouldn’t cover the $16 per month fee, then my “fuel” costs for the MY per month is about $44 per month, or $525 per year. In a real-world mix on 80% city / 20% highway, the Q5 will get about 22 mi/gal at best, so that’s $160 per month or just over $1900 per year, so over six years, I’m saving $8300 on fuel.

Other costs - insurance, registration, and consumables like tires - are pretty much a wash. If I subtract the $1200 for the HPWC and its installation, then I’m looking at about a $10,000 difference in TCO between the MY and the Q5 over my six-year timeframe. Even if I only realize half of that, it’s nothing to sneeze at. Yes, the comparison would have been different if I could have chosen a cheaper ICE car than the Q5 to compare against the MY, but I couldn’t find one that would meet my requirements. YMMV of course, but doesn’t it always?

My predicament was almost exactly the same. We came from an Audi Q5 TDI which drove very nice but maintenance and fuel were expensive compared to the MY. We didn't switch from ICE to electric to save money or reduce our carbon footprint. We switched to electric because it is a much better driving vehicle with linear power, no shifting, no start/stop and no stopping for smelly diesel...

To not thread drift entirely, and as responded a few pages ago, we chose the Model Y over the Mach E because the MY actually exists. That is a major selling point...actually being able to own the car...

 

[quadroplexor]

My predicament was almost exactly the same. We came from an Audi Q5 TDI which drove very nice but maintenance and fuel were expensive compared to the MY. We didn't switch from ICE to electric to save money or reduce our carbon footprint. We switched to electric because it is a much better driving vehicle with linear power, no shifting, no start/stop and no stopping for smelly diesel...

To not thread drift entirely, and as responded a few pages ago, we chose the Model Y over the Mach E because the MY actually exists. That is a major selling point...actually being able to own the car...

Chose it for the same reason and the fact that Tesla is so far ahead on software.

 

[db93]

If you don't want a Tesla EV made in USA, may as well wait for VW

 

[rxlawdude]

Also in Austin. We got in on an electric plan that gives unlimited 50a (40a actual) charging between 7pm->2pm for $30/month. We have a Model S, Model 3, and a Leaf. Definitely saving money over gas. Of course, much more savings pre-pandemic. Our driving mileage has gone way down.

Now those electric rates are a Texas export I could get behind.

 

[rxlawdude]

If you don't want a Tesla EV made in USA, may as well wait for VW

And their no-doubt Rube Goldberg inspired mechanics and electronics.

 

[DanDi58]

You forgot to ask if MME will get the phantom braking of Tesla Anyway, I do not understand why people on this forum so against MME. It has many good things, opposite to Tesla it has a usable blind spot detection (real radar for that + LED in the mirrors), Traffic Cross Alert (great safety feature that helped me many times), it has Android Auto/Apple carplay (I love it), it has adjustable headrest (!), ActiveX seats are better in my opinion, 2 screens, etc. Tesla has its own benefits, however, Autopilot is not more than ADAS 2.5 that you can buy with any car nowadays, and phantom braking while on Autopilot is not a pleasant experience (even after I know now when it will happen). FSD L5 will never be achievable by current Teslas without retrofitting them with new hardware sensors. Limited FSD will be possible on particular roads under particular conditions. So maybe L4 is kind of achievable in 2-3 years from now.

Competition is good, and the next couple of years will push Tesla aside a bit. And this is not a bad thing, but rather a force that will drive a Tesla innovation. IMHO.

I think much of the anti-MME feeling is because it's all assumption with the MME, since it's not in production yet. So comments about the seats, interior/exterior quality and performance are completely academic at this point. Ford is talking a good game, but Tesla is the only one playing and keeping score right now.

 

[wmself]

We placed an order for a Mach-E immediately, like the first day. As time went on, and Covid, we realized we would not see the car until 2021 most likely. So we opted for the Model Y in June. In retrospect, although the Mach-E would be I think a more 'fun' car, and would certainly turn a few heads, we love the MY. I have been fortunate enough to own porsches, a ferrari, a couple classic muscle cars, etc. But looking back, I really have to say the MY is comfortable, super f*ing fast, both off the line and at speed, I like the look of it, and we've had no end of people come up to us to ask what kind of car it is, or if they know Tesla, to ask us about it. At least as much as any exotic I've ever owned. It's our go-to car. And the final point, certainly debatable, is the Tesla supercharging network. I have owned an EV prior to this and would have never considered driving it far away from it's plug in my garage. But the MY can go from CA to Nova Scotia and never miss a charge. So one happy Tesla customer here, and Ford gave me my $500 back the same day I cancelled so good on them.

 

[acarney]

I have nothing wrong with other EV's, and I think some look great, probably have great interior specs, etc. However, you can't argue that Tesla has an efficiency advantage right now, which makes charging seem shorter and cost less. They also have the supercharger network, which to me is just HUGE. Tesla is very invested in making sure those chargers work and that there are a lot of them (not just one or two plugs, but 5, 8, 12, etc). If Ford or someone else had a network half as big as Tesla and was aggressively expanding it in house I might seriously consider someone else (for a few minutes at least ). But until then I wouldn't want to be searching for a quick charger from a 3rd party network and wonder if it's 50kW, 100kW, 125kW, 150kW, etc. Trying to find one that is working reliably and isn't full with some Bolt charging at 50kW or something....

To me the charging network is 50% or maybe even more of the whole package deal and right now Tesla CRUSHES that in America.

 

[Teledatageek]

We placed an order for a Mach-E immediately, like the first day. As time went on, and Covid, we realized we would not see the car until 2021 most likely. So we opted for the Model Y in June. In retrospect, although the Mach-E would be I think a more 'fun' car, and would certainly turn a few heads, we love the MY. I have been fortunate enough to own porsches, a ferrari, a couple classic muscle cars, etc. But looking back, I really have to say the MY is comfortable, super f*ing fast, both off the line and at speed, I like the look of it, and we've had no end of people come up to us to ask what kind of car it is, or if they know Tesla, to ask us about it. At least as much as any exotic I've ever owned. It's our go-to car. And the final point, certainly debatable, is the Tesla supercharging network. I have owned an EV prior to this and would have never considered driving it far away from it's plug in my garage. But the MY can go from CA to Nova Scotia and never miss a charge. So one happy Tesla customer here, and Ford gave me my $500 back the same day I cancelled so good on them.

May I ask what was your primary vehicle before the Y? I'm also looking at the Mach-E vs. the Y. After driving the Y (and X) last weekend, I ask myself why do I want to wait. Also - your signature says Midnight Gray as the color of your Y. Was that a color before or is that the Midnight Silver Metallic? I really like gray cars... Do you think FSD has been worth it for you? Thanks!

 

[BlindPass]

May I ask what was your primary vehicle before the Y? I'm also looking at the Mach-E vs. the Y. After driving the Y (and X) last weekend, I ask myself why do I want to wait. Also - your signature says Midnight Gray as the color of your Y. Was that a color before or is that the Midnight Silver Metallic? I really like gray cars... Do you think FSD has been worth it for you? Thanks!

Do you have another car? If so, why not wait?

The reasons for waiting are pretty clear. It gives you better Y build quality (and potentially lower in price) plus you’ll be able to try the Mach E.

 

[bgrynn1873]

May I ask what was your primary vehicle before the Y? I'm also looking at the Mach-E vs. the Y. After driving the Y (and X) last weekend, I ask myself why do I want to wait. Also - your signature says Midnight Gray as the color of your Y. Was that a color before or is that the Midnight Silver Metallic? I really like gray cars... Do you think FSD has been worth it for you? Thanks!

I brought FSD on my Y in wasn’t sure if it would be worth it but I liked the extra stuff you see on the screen and the ability to stop at lights and change lanes made it seem like I would use it.

after having the car for about a month FSD is one the best features would not buy a Tesla without it.

I also found out smart summons works well in certain situations if you have a parking lot not busy.

In my case I go to a lot golf courses usually the parking lot is not busy. I can pull up to bag drop and use smart summons to bring the car to me. Saves me lugging clubs through a parking lot or leaving them at bag drop until I drive up. This alone makes FSD a good deal to me.

 

[Teledatageek]

Do you have another car? If so, why not wait?

The reasons for waiting are pretty clear. It gives you better Y build quality (and potentially lower in price) plus you’ll be able to try the Mach E.

Yes, we have a F-150 Raptor and an Explorer ST. I have the EV bug - but yes there is no reason I have to do anything right now...

 

[Teledatageek]

I brought FSD on my Y in wasn’t sure if it would be worth it but I liked the extra stuff you see on the screen and the ability to stop at lights and change lanes made it seem like I would use it.

after having the car for about a month FSD is one the best features would not buy a Tesla without it.

I also found out smart summons works well in certain situations if you have a parking lot not busy.

In my case I go to a lot golf courses usually the parking lot is not busy. I can pull up to bag drop and use smart summons to bring the car to me. Saves me lugging clubs through a parking lot or leaving them at bag drop until I drive up. This alone makes FSD a good deal to me.

Excellent points, thank you. It does seem like if one is buying a Tesla, that FSD should be added.

 

[acarney]

Excellent points, thank you. It does seem like if one is buying a Tesla, that FSD should be added.

As far as I know, all the visuals on the screen are the same for AP and FSD. You gain stopping/starting at stop signs and stop lights (still very new, I've seen some very mixed results via YouTube), Navigate on Autopilot (lane change), and Summon for the $8k FSD price right now. Obviously new features will continue to show up, but at delivery that's what you get over basic AP.

 

[wmself]

May I ask what was your primary vehicle before the Y? I'm also looking at the Mach-E vs. the Y. After driving the Y (and X) last weekend, I ask myself why do I want to wait. Also - your signature says Midnight Gray as the color of your Y. Was that a color before or is that the Midnight Silver Metallic? I really like gray cars... Do you think FSD has been worth it for you? Thanks!

We had a Bolt. We loved it, but it was an entry level car, we wanted nicer. It's Metallic Silver not gray, my mistake. We only use FSD on the freeway, it's been glitchy, but I'm hopeful it gets better soon.

 

[db93]

As far as I know, all the visuals on the screen are the same for AP and FSD. You gain stopping/starting at stop signs and stop lights (still very new, I've seen some very mixed results via YouTube), Navigate on Autopilot (lane change), and Summon for the $8k FSD price right now. Obviously new features will continue to show up, but at delivery that's what you get over basic AP.

MY without FSD stops on city streets as it simply follows traffic, the infrequent case of being first to the light or stop sign, is still a manual operation

 

[SSonnentag]

I just checked the Electrify America charging locations on Plug Share and judging by the comments, many of the stations are either completely down or charge at EXTREMELY low rates. While there is a fairly impressive map dispersion of EA locations, having only 4 chargers at each station, many of which only allow 2 to be used at a time, along with the seemingly-common outages, I'm not so sure there is a viable non-Tesla charging network in the US.

 

[psuKinger]

I just checked the Electrify America charging locations on Plug Share and judging by the comments, many of the stations are either completely down or charge at EXTREMELY low rates. While there is a fairly impressive map dispersion of EA locations, having only 4 chargers at each station, many of which only allow 2 to be used at a time, along with the seemingly-common outages, I'm not so sure there is a viable non-Tesla charging network in the US.

Yes.

It's simple and practical. Their are plenty of fair and reasonable things to prefer about competitor EV models relative to a Tesla. But consumers wanting large and efficient batteries that provide long range in between recharges, and ability to (quickly and (relatively) conveniently) recharge along the way if/when their battery isn't big enough and efficient enough to get them where they are going on a single charge, is a very big deal. For obvious reasons.