Why not buy a Mustang Mach-E?

[bgrynn1873]

Unless you have a model s or x with free supercharging the Tesla Supercharger network is not as big advantage some are making it out to be.

In the next year or two there are going to be plenty of options out there for any ev. I expect we will be able to use a ccs adapter soon.

also with a wall charger and solar I not using anything else within a 100 miles from my house. So for most people we at most talking about charging maybe 1-2k miles (8-10 times actually using one) a year you need a supercharger.

So not a deal killer if you looking at other ev’s the real killer for other ev’s is they don’t have the range.

 

[Fred42]

We placed an order for a Mach-E immediately, like the first day. As time went on, and Covid, we realized we would not see the car until 2021 most likely. So we opted for the Model Y in June. In retrospect, although the Mach-E would be I think a more 'fun' car, and would certainly turn a few heads, we love the MY. I have been fortunate enough to own porsches, a ferrari, a couple classic muscle cars, etc. But looking back, I really have to say the MY is comfortable, super f*ing fast, both off the line and at speed, I like the look of it, and we've had no end of people come up to us to ask what kind of car it is, or if they know Tesla, to ask us about it. At least as much as any exotic I've ever owned. It's our go-to car. And the final point, certainly debatable, is the Tesla supercharging network. I have owned an EV prior to this and would have never considered driving it far away from it's plug in my garage. But the MY can go from CA to Nova Scotia and never miss a charge. So one happy Tesla customer here, and Ford gave me my $500 back the same day I cancelled so good on them.

People don't recognize Teslas in the Monterey area?

 

[jsight]

That is complete nonsense. It doesn't matter how few times per year you make use of a charging network. The point is that without the network you're not making the trip in the EV. You're stuck with taking a second vehicle or renting an ICE car. The Tesla network is roughly 1/3 the cost of charging at Electrify America stations. Do you even own an EV? Your ignorance indicates you don't.

Depending on where he is in FL and the coverage of other networks, it may not be that much nonsense. Some of my most common driving routes are better covered by EA and other CCS options than by the supercharger network.

Though, FL seems to have really good supercharger coverage relative to other options, so it would be surprising to me if that were the case there.

 

[bgrynn1873]

Depending on where he is in FL and the coverage of other networks, it may not be that much nonsense. Some of my most common driving routes are better covered by EA and other CCS options than by the supercharger network.

Though, FL seems to have really good supercharger coverage relative to other options, so it would be surprising to me if that were the case there.

A few years ago there were hardly any dc chargers. Looking at PlugShare you can see a lot chargers have come online in the last 12 months.

I would not have brought a Tesla if it didn’t have at least Chademo. Adapter and a good chance we can use a ccs adapter in a few years.

As much as I like the Supercharger network I do want the option to use other networks. Failure to do that means your captive.

 

[acarney]

Unless you have a model s or x with free supercharging the Tesla Supercharger network is not as big advantage some are making it out to be.

In the next year or two there are going to be plenty of options out there for any ev. I expect we will be able to use a ccs adapter soon.

also with a wall charger and solar I not using anything else within a 100 miles from my house. So for most people we at most talking about charging maybe 1-2k miles (8-10 times actually using one) a year you need a supercharger.

So not a deal killer if you looking at other ev’s the real killer for other ev’s is they don’t have the range.

I’ll be a little nicer than the other guy, but I tend to agree that you’re either over estimating the other networks or not giving enough credit to Tesla and the supercharger network. The supercharger network was absolutely what pushed me over the edge to stretch my budget before and get the Model 3 SR+.

A Kona EV from where I live (South East WA to Las Vegas) would require 4 hr and 37 min charging and cost about $97. A SR+

A few years ago there were hardly any dc chargers. Looking at PlugShare you can see a lot chargers have come online in the last 12 months.

I would not have brought a Tesla if it didn’t have at least Chademo. Adapter and a good chance we can use a ccs adapter in a few years.

As much as I like the Supercharger network I do want the option to use other networks. Failure to do that means your captive.

I'm all for more options too, but right now I don't think the other networks have enough plugs and I would go insane if I had a car that could handle 150 to 200kWh and was having to sit behind a Bolt or someone that max at 50kWh. Tesla has this problem a little bit with the older S/X, but largely the number of plugs make that a non-issue out of SoCal and maybe a couple real popular routes. I also think Tesla is pretty reliable, but there still needs to be more focus on that with Tesla, and especially with the 3rd parties. It would be nice if EA offered free roadside assistance with a battery tuck or something that would head out to you if you got to their charger and found it to be offline or not working. That might also encourage them to make sure uptime is as high as possible.

 

[frankvb]

A Chademo adapter as a backup seems like a good idea, until you realise that most charging stations only have 2, usually shared with CCS, and indeed often occupied, and due to relatively low charging speed you'd have to wait a long time if that's the case. The one network that seems to be expanding (EA) is mostly CCS with a single Chademo per site as far as I can tell.

Of course there can be specific locations where there's no supercharger nearby but there is a Chademo charger.

 

[rxlawdude]

As much as I like the Supercharger network I do want the option to use other networks. Failure to do that means your captive.

My guess is that the other DCFC networks will get smart and add Tesla connectors, given the number of Teslas compared to all other EVs taken together before you need to be concerned with being a captive.

But I continuously see reports of "out of order" and/or slow charging DCFC non-Superchargers.

 

[Reeler]

Tesla connector = Lightning cable. Tesla Nav = Betamax. Don't know why Tesla is so in love with proprietary solutions. Every other brand now uses CCS and Andriod Auto / Apple Carplay.

There was a time where you could debate, but that time is over.

 

[acarney]

Tesla connector = Lightning cable. Tesla Nav = Betamax. Don't know why Tesla is so in love with proprietary solutions. Every other brand now uses CCS and Andriod Auto / Apple Carplay.

There was a time where you could debate, but that time is over.

I actually like the Tesla Nav look and feel. I would like the option for CarPlay, but I doubt Apple Maps would give Tesla enough access for Tesla to be happy and add real time superchargers status and routing etc. I guess Tesla could build an app that just called the Apple Maps or Google Maps API and then did everything else over the top, but I would rather the data went over the Tesla connection and that it didn’t have to be running from my phone the whole time. I think Tesla has a powerful system that could be fantastic with some user facing updates and changes.

Again, would like CarPlay option, but doubt I would use it for routing or audio.

I actually think the Lightning cable is amazing. I like that you can plug it in whatever way you want. I like that it’s small. I like that it see durable and doesn’t have any plastic clips or anything. I know USB-C largely has the same benefits, but it showed up after lightning.

To me the Tesla connector is smaller, sleeker, and nicer than most of the other connectors out there. It looks well designed for a luxury EV while the other connectors kind of look like industrial plugs. I sure would like a Tesla designed adapter for the other plugs, and hopefully one less involved as the CHAdeMO but I hope Tesla keeps their connector here in the US.

 

[frankvb]

There was a time where you could debate, but that time is over.

Only when CCS would offer the same easy of charging as Tesla, just plug-in and start charging without apps or NFC cards, and if google maps would integrate with (super)charger availability and live car battery data.

And I still think that e.g. the BMW navigation with heads-up display is way superior compared to using google maps with your phone. Not to mention Android Auto on my Leaf crashes 30 seconds after you start using it (which I would like to as the Nissan built in navigation is rather poor).

 

[MP3Mike]

Only when CCS would offer the same easy of charging as Tesla, just plug-in and start charging without apps or NFC cards,

EA has said that they are adding support for that to their chargers next year. Of course your car has to support it. Which for most will mean waiting for a new model year and upgrading.

 

[psuKinger]

Tesla connector = Lightning cable. Tesla Nav = Betamax. Don't know why Tesla is so in love with proprietary solutions. Every other brand now uses CCS and Andriod Auto / Apple Carplay.

There was a time where you could debate, but that time is over.

As I've said before, I *mostly* agree with this, but I think your analogy needs tweaked. It's a better analogy if you compare it to the "old" 5-pin and not the "new" Lightning Cable, because in terms of product maturity, "EV in 2020" is like "Smartphone in 2009".

And in 2009, even if you struggled with Apple generically and preferred Windows for Desktop, and didn't like the iTunes ecosystem and the proprietary connectors and everything else that comes with "being Apple," it was undeniable that in 2009, the iPhones 3GS was *significantly* better than anything else out there, and that everyone else was playing catch up from pretty far in the rear view mirror, and if you wanted to get a smartphone, even if you agreed with everything I just said (which I did/do), the smart buy was an iPhone (which I bought).

Same thing now. Eventually, others will catch up. Through a combination of copy-cat imitation of some of the stuff Tesla has gotten *right*, and some genuine ingenuity and innovation on some of the things they've gotten wrong. And eventually we'll have *choice*. But today, in 2020, if you want an EV, you're much better off dealing with that 5-pin adapter and that "closed iTunes" ecosystem, because it works way better than any of the EVs that have CCS and CarPlay/Android Auto....

I otherwise share your opinion, and look forward to the day that either Tesla embraces CCS connections and Android Auto interfaces, *or* the competition has caught up on battery range/efficiency and supercharging speeds and availability...

 

[psuKinger]

As much as I like the Supercharger network I do want the option to use other networks. Failure to do that means your captive.

Completely agreed. I share this sentiment. It's hard to imagine how anyone could disagree with this. More ways to charge is better for us the consumers.

That said:

A few years ago there were hardly any dc chargers. Looking at PlugShare you can see a lot chargers have come online in the last 12 months.

I would not have brought a Tesla if it didn’t have at least Chademo. Adapter and a good chance we can use a ccs adapter in a few years.

That's great news to see that progress is being made. But I personally can't afford to buy a car, at this price, and bank on a "future hope" (that might not materialize) that more charging options will materialize. If I put this much skin in the game (which I did), I only do so based on what *is* available, and that that availability will work well for me.

Tesla's network is the only thing that makes that work, for me, today. Without it, I can't/don't buy today.

Tesla built ahead of demand. Tesla was/is prepared to meet demand. Everyone else has made it clear that they only intend to build when the demand is there. Hopefully we, the Tesla ownership base, are the proof of that demand, and that they, the 3rd party charging networks, see us and provide us with those extra charging options....

 

[bgrynn1873]

Completely agreed. I share this sentiment. It's hard to imagine how anyone could disagree with this. More ways to charge is better for us the consumers.

That said:



That's great news to see that progress is being made. But I personally can't afford to buy a car, at this price, and bank on a "future hope" (that might not materialize) that more charging options will materialize. If I put this much skin in the game (which I did), I only do so based on what *is* available, and that that availability will work well for me.

Tesla's network is the only thing that makes that work, for me, today. Without it, I can't/don't buy today.

Tesla built ahead of demand. Tesla was/is prepared to meet demand. Everyone else has made it clear that they only intend to build when the demand is there. Hopefully we, the Tesla ownership base, are the proof of that demand, and that they, the 3rd party charging networks, see us and provide us with those extra charging options....

At the end of the day Tesla is going to offer a ccs adapter. In Europe they already use ccs so adapter is just a matter of time.

I brought a tesla because it offers the best package today.

I am actually surprised at how many alternatives there are to superchargers. With a Y or model 3 you pay for charging so there is no reason to not use a different charging network if available and closer to me when I need it.

There are enough options out there now that it makes any electric vehicle a good option.

 

[Marty2020]

Remember that the Mustang Mach-E is still a FORD so it loses points automatically. Let's see how wonderful it is when if ever actually sees the light of day.

 

[MrTuna]

At the end of the day Tesla is going to offer a ccs adapter. In Europe they already use ccs so adapter is just a matter of time.

I brought a tesla because it offers the best package today.

I am actually surprised at how many alternatives there are to superchargers. With a Y or model 3 you pay for charging so there is no reason to not use a different charging network if available and closer to me when I need it.

There are enough options out there now that it makes any electric vehicle a good option.

aren’t most competing charging stations 3-4x the Tesla price? I peak at plugshare every so often.. and it’s like wow.. $30 and 90 minutes to charge 20-70, vs $6 and 15 minutes at a supercharger.

 

[bgrynn1873]

aren’t most competing charging stations 3-4x the Tesla price? I peak at plugshare every so often.. and it’s like wow.. $30 and 90 minutes to charge 20-70, vs $6 and 15 minutes at a supercharger.

The price is all over the map. I believe electricity America and EVgo just announced they are moving to a per KW price of .28 cents.

honestly the growth in 3rd party beyond the supercharger network is what finally convinced me to buy a Tesla. With electric cars you have lots of options now it’s not a concern that your going be stuck and need a tow to a supercharger.

 

[Bucfan11]

Remember that the Mustang Mach-E is still a FORD so it loses points automatically. Let's see how wonderful it is when if ever actually sees the light of day.

Loved my Fords, they have all been great! German cars on the other hand...

 

[silverelan]

aren’t most competing charging stations 3-4x the Tesla price? I peak at plugshare every so often.. and it’s like wow.. $30 and 90 minutes to charge 20-70, vs $6 and 15 minutes at a supercharger.

It's like $0.31/kWh on Electrify America vs. $0.28/kWh on Superchargers. So maybe like $1.50-1.80 per charging session? Not that big a deal, tbh.

The advantage that Superchargers have right now is that on certain heavily trafficked routes, there are multiple options to stop and charge at a V2 or V3. That's not always the case for CCS which has single-charger "stations" of just 50kW as a backup way too often. That's changing though and it's foolish not to understand that the 125kW- 350kW CCS infrastructure is growing fast.

If you have any doubts on how quickly CCS is growing, just check out CCS on Plugshare for Michigan, New York, Oklahoma, and Colorado.

It's this explosive growth in charging infrastructure that makes a non-Tesla EV a realistic possibility.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

It's like $0.31/kWh on Electrify America vs. $0.28/kWh on Superchargers. So maybe like $1.50-1.80 per charging session? Not that big a deal, tbh.

The advantage that Superchargers have right now is that on certain heavily trafficked routes, there are multiple options to stop and charge at a V2 or V3. That's not always the case for CCS which has single-charger "stations" of just 50kW as a backup way too often. That's changing though and it's foolish not to understand that the 125kW- 350kW CCS infrastructure is growing fast.

If you have any doubts on how quickly CCS is growing, just check out CCS on Plugshare for Michigan, New York, Oklahoma, and Colorado.

It's this explosive growth in charging infrastructure that makes a non-Tesla EV a realistic possibility.

The EA stations in Colorado are $0.43/kWh vs. $0.15 to $0.28/kWh for Superchargers around Denver.