Why not buy a Mustang Mach-E?

[EVortex]

Ford + EV = joke

 

[dmh444]

We were one of the first to put a deposit on the Mach E. I really was stoked about it, love the look. But after COVID, it became clear the car would not be available until Fall or even later, so we cancelled in late June when our backup MY reservation came up. We love the MY. It has good looks, ours is a quality build, it is super f*ing fast and handles well, and frankly, having owned an EV for 3 years, and had range anxiety galore to the point we never took it on a trip over 150 miles one way, we are glad we got the Tesla. The supercharging network is the icing on the cake. I planned a trip from San Francisco to Tucson using the super chargers. It is 2 hours longer than an ICE car, and since we would spend the night half way, it is a realistic drive using Tesla chargers. I would never ever had considered that drive in my 230 mile range Bolt. Granted, the Mach E has 300 miles range, but zero super chargers in a suitable network spaced to allow long drives. Sure, there are ChadMo and other things, but they frankly suck, imho. So, even though when the Mustang comes out I may wish I had one, we could not be happier with the Y.

One huge consideration (besides the supercharging stations) is that this is not Tesla's first go-around with EVs. They're clearly the dominant market leader. Yes, Ford has hybrids, but I'm a bit relunctant with the Mach-E since it's their 1st true EV. That's kind of why I initially thought about the e-tron but ultimately passed on it. Besides, no other EV manufacturer (none I can think of) has OTA updates. That's a pretty big selling point IMO.

 

[BlindPass]

Why all the hate about another EV brand ?
It is one less ICE model on the road

The entertaining aspect is how many of the cons are ones we used to balk at when ICE lovers would use them against Tesla.

The Mach-E GT is appealing if the build quality is good and the Ford service centers are adequately supported. I’ll gladly trade little used range for better HMI, build quality, and service. I’ll be curious if Ford can deliver that.

 

[Uncle Paul]

This will also solve the debate as to the value of panel gaps.
If the Ford has excellent panel gaps then perhaps lots of buyers will choose Ford.
If people continue to buy Tesla, then perhaps it will point to panel gaps not being that big a deal.

 

[asa8080]

I definitely wouldn’t underestimate the first EV factor. Just looked on Etron forums, a car made by “luxury” manufacturer, not a Ford even. So many horror stories car do not charge, ac stop working and lot of other glitches. And DAYS in service...
“I have taken my Etron 3 times to get this particular error message looked at and corrected. The latest fix requires the tail light assembly part to be replaced. The part won’t arrive till 3/28!!! They released car back to me but not sure I should be driving given half my tail light isn’t functioning properly. Not happy. Dealer has had my car 4 times now for a number of issues and each time they have to keep my car 4-9 days.”
80-100k car btw
Personally I also want to get emac , but as it’s not available and not clear when it would be, drop it. Like the interior (on photos, Idonno how it would be real) but 200m range, charge network sparse...

 

[theganjaguru]

Hmmm you raise an interesting question.

Mustang Pro

• Build quality will be much better than a Tesla
• Dedicated dealer network (can’t believe I just wrote that) will be able to service your car in a timely manner.
• Dealer will actually return calls
• Decent range

Mustang Con

• Dealer markup. 1st batch is already sold out. Word is the mustang will come with a hefty markup like the upcoming Bronco.
  
• No Super Charger Network
• Battery tech behind Tesla.

 

[Mr X]

$46,595. No options except All Wheel Drive. Only an EPA 210 miles of range, WITH ALL WHEEL DRIVE. EPA 210 miles with all wheel drive

If Model Y RWD starts at $45,000 and has a 300+ mile range

 

[Bridor]

I will probably buy a Mustang Mach E when I can get it used for under $20K. The supercharger network is second to none - I just wish all the other manufacturers would finally admit that Tesla beat them and join in. We do not need three different charging standards and the Tesla one is hands down the best. Only one port that can slow or quick charge...

Brent

 

[MXLRplus]

Yes, some (all?) dealers will mark it up.

This is if you buy it from Hemborg Ford in California:

DEALER SELLING PRICE$57,900~~~

• BASE MSRP$51,800~~
• TOTAL OPTIONS†††
• DESTINATION AND DELIVERY CHARGES$1,100^^
• TOTAL MSRP$52,900^^^
• DIFFERENCE FROM MSRP$5,000```
• DEALER SELLING PRICE$57,900

 

[BlindPass]

$46,595. No options except All Wheel Drive. Only an EPA 210 miles of range, WITH ALL WHEEL DRIVE. EPA 210 miles with all wheel drive

If Model Y RWD starts at $45,000 and has a 300+ mile range

As an early Model S owner, that’s not prohibitive. If the other features are better, I’d be interested in the Mach E GT over a Model Y Performance. That’s even more true outside North America.

Ideally Tesla would have an E-Tron quality interior trim level on the MY Performance (or any performance model). The MSRP of the E-Tron is basically 15k-20k more, although no one pays that with dealer discounts and federal rebates. I’m guessing with production constraints Tesla likely can’t afford to offer that many trim options, even if there would be profit margin

 

[Maryland]

Why all the hate about another EV brand ?
It is one less ICE model on the road

Not only that, having some actual competition in the EV market would encourage Tesla to build a better car, especially as far as quality control is concerned. If they start losing customers to other manufactures who know how to build a car without basic paint and panel fitting issues, then Tesla might finally feel the need to improve their sub-par build quality from the factory. Consumers benefit when companies have to compete.

As a prospective Tesla buyer, the fact that I would probably have to visit the dealership to "fix" a brand new car because the body panels, interior panels, or paint are misaligned or damaged is a major turn-off. I feel like I can trust Ford to at least get that right, even if they produce an otherwise inferior car.

 

[hashoshi]

Piling onto this thread. I've driven a Ford with batteries for 5 years (albeit a hybrid) and it's been a mixed bag quality-wise. I will say, Ford makes a pretty good hybrid drivetrain, I'll give them that. Fit and finish was good in terms of panel gaps and alignment, but durability has been rather questionable. Definitely not the worst in the world, but not good either. Leather on the dash showing outlines of the airbag compartments despite being parked inside out of the sun, speakers blown out / failing listening at 1/4 volume, rattles and poor door seals aplenty, brakes were garbage from day 1, paint on bumpers peeled off like egg shells after first winter (yes I washed it after salt), dealership always trying to scam me for "maintenance" I know I don't need, etc.

Mach-E looks like a supremely refined product for Ford electric-wise, but don't expect world-beating technology and quality, especially in this first production run. While the fit and finish will likely be better than Tesla's, Ford is Ford. You won't get OTA updates, infotainment will be lackluster with exception of Apple Carplay / Android Auto, options will cost you a fortune, and the dealers will take you for every penny they can both at purchase and afterwards (if you let them).

Just my two cents. I don't hate Ford, heck, I bought a semi-pricey vehicle from them, but I wouldn't call them a beacon of quality. Hats off to them for making an EV regardless, it's good for the industry.

 

[Kevin66]

I welcome more entries into the EV market. I have purchased Ford ice vehicles in the past, and they were fine. Currently, my EV is a Nissan Leaf. I ordered the Y for the range and the Tesla charging network. My Leaf already does fine in the shorter trip arena.

My experience here in the Midwest is a lack of EV options and chargers. CCS chargers and Chademo chargers are not very common in my state outside of Indianapolis, and Tesla chargers are more available. So for me, day trips and weekend trips are a challenge, and Tesla is my current best option.

I do look forward to the coming competition in the EV market by Ford, GM and others. More EVs will mean growing charger networks in my area, and then more viable options. I think we, as consumers, will be better off.

 

[raggedy]

Ford will have OTA updates for the Mach E

I don’t look to Ford for top of the line quality, but it will be better painted than a MY.

dealers will charge over msrp initially. I wouldn’t pay a penny over msrp. Heck, even paying msrp is a tough pill to swallow, but I understand the business and dealers will try to make as much as they can on the sale.

I feel bad for people who have little knowledge of what their cars actually need in the way of maintenance. Dealer service is always insisting on more service than is needed, but many owners fearful of their car breaking down fork over the money.

I’m not interested in the Mach E. I would have looked at a Polestar 2 if the size was comparable to a MY, but it’s much smaller. Jaguar i-Pace? I have an English car and they’re below Ford in fit/finish/paint.
Nissan Ariya looks interesting. I’ve never wanted to own a Nissan, but maybe they’ll make a more compelling EV than ICE car.

 

[rxlawdude]

I will say, Ford makes a pretty good hybrid drivetrain, I'll give them that.

Copied from Toyota's 2nd gen Hybrid Synergy Drive technology, circa 2004.

 

[Dcd7041]

Have you guys watched Ford vs Ferrari? In addition to being a very good movie to watch, it just shows how hard it is for legacy car manufacturers to compete with a new comer like Tesla. Legacy Car executives will always think their own career with the bets made towards new technology has very little upside and too much downside for them. And there will be executives, who will intentionally block EV growth within their company. It is Organizational Behavior 101.

Obviously I don't have a crystal ball but my bet would be Tesla competition will come from pure EV players like NIO, Lucid, etc. The only legacy one that I am slightly bullish on is Polestar as Volvo created an independent division for that.

Again the reasons are not technical. It is organizational behavior. There are plenty of highly capable engineers, designers in legacy OEMs. They just won't be as supported as they could be had they work in a pure EV company.

 

[psuKinger]

TL/DR summary: Range is King. And (a big) part of that is the infrastructure needed to get more range when you are on long trips. And FSD fascinates some folks (such as myself).

Long(er) answer: I realize OP was likely (certainly?) trolling, but I looked long and hard at the question of MachE vs Model Y. Here's what I personally had in the "Pros" column for a MachE (note: at least *some* of these are going to be very unique to me):
- I'm not a super-minimalist the way some are; it might sound crazy to fellow Tesla owners, but I actually kinda like buttons (but I'm admittedly not crazy about the giant knob in the middle of the touchscreen on the MachE).
- I thought I'd prefer Android Auto over Tesla's OS. Even after owning my Tesla for six days, I still think this is probably true (although I am liking Tesla's OS the more I use it).
- Perhaps most compelling of all (for me personally) - I live ~50 minutes from the Tesla sales and service center. I've probably got 5 Ford Dealerships within 20-30 minutes of my house. If and when I need service (hopefully rarely), there could be a convenience factor there (for example, 7 days after taking delivery, I'm driving out to have some minor issues fixed on my newly delivered Tesla, AND to get a state inspection done. Kinda annoying. Hope it's an uncommon occurance.)
- When comparing one price (with tax rebate) to the other (without), the MachE likely ends up more affordable, potentially by several (non-negligible) thousands of dollars.

But I ultimately chose the Model Y over the MachE, for these reasons:
- Range. Range and minimizing range anxiety was very important to me.
- Charging availability if/when I start to run out of range and start feeling that anxiety. Many of the Level 2 chargers down in towards the city I live outside of are Tesla connectors; J1772 chargers exist but are not as abundant (and Tesla's can use them; the opposite isn't true for Mustang MachE's, they can't use Level 2 Tesla chargers).
- I can't stomach the idea of spending this kind of money on a car and NOT being able to take it on a long trip if I want to do so (instead of taking the family 7-passenger ICE monster). Tesla has the supercharger network. No one else is close on this.
- I was (and six days later still am) enamored with Tesla's (Beta) self-driving tech, which is industry-leading, and had low/no confidence that the MachE will be anything close to the capability of my FSD MY.
- Equally compelling - the Model Y was for sale when my "old car" failed inspection and I was in the market, and the MachE wasn't... that's a pretty strong reason if you ask me.


Ultimately, the "pros" for the Y (significantly) outweighed the "pros" for the MachE. Six days later, I don't regret my decision. And I have a hard time envisioning a scenario in which I will, unless those long ~50 minute service trips past a half dozen Ford Dealers, out to the Tesla center, become a routine thing....

 

[Dennisis]

TL/DR summary: Range is King. And (a big) part of that is the infrastructure needed to get more range when you are on long trips. And FSD fascinates some folks (such as myself).

Long(er) answer: I realize OP was likely (certainly?) trolling, but I looked long and hard at the question of MachE vs Model Y. Here's what I personally had in the "Pros" column for a MachE (note: at least *some* of these are going to be very unique to me):
- I'm not a super-minimalist the way some are; it might sound crazy to fellow Tesla owners, but I actually kinda like buttons (but I'm admittedly not crazy about the giant knob in the middle of the touchscreen on the MachE).
- I thought I'd prefer Android Auto over Tesla's OS. Even after owning my Tesla for six days, I still think this is probably true (although I am liking Tesla's OS the more I use it).
- Perhaps most compelling of all (for me personally) - I live ~50 minutes from the Tesla sales and service center. I've probably got 5 Ford Dealerships within 20-30 minutes of my house. If and when I need service (hopefully rarely), there could be a convenience factor there (for example, 7 days after taking delivery, I'm driving out to have some minor issues fixed on my newly delivered Tesla, AND to get a state inspection done. Kinda annoying. Hope it's an uncommon occurance.)
- When comparing one price (with tax rebate) to the other (without), the MachE likely ends up more affordable, potentially by several (non-negligible) thousands of dollars.

But I ultimately chose the Model Y over the MachE, for these reasons:
- Range. Range and minimizing range anxiety was very important to me.
- Charging availability if/when I start to run out of range and start feeling that anxiety. Many of the Level 2 chargers down in towards the city I live outside of are Tesla connectors; J1772 chargers exist but are not as abundant (and Tesla's can use them; the opposite isn't true for Mustang MachE's, they can't use Level 2 Tesla chargers).
- I can't stomach the idea of spending this kind of money on a car and NOT being able to take it on a long trip if I want to do so (instead of taking the family 7-passenger ICE monster). Tesla has the supercharger network. No one else is close on this.
- I was (and six days later still am) enamored with Tesla's (Beta) self-driving tech, which is industry-leading, and had low/no confidence that the MachE will be anything close to the capability of my FSD MY.
- Equally compelling - the Model Y was for sale when my "old car" failed inspection and I was in the market, and the MachE wasn't... that's a pretty strong reason if you ask me.


Ultimately, the "pros" for the Y (significantly) outweighed the "pros" for the MachE. Six days later, I don't regret my decision. And I have a hard time envisioning a scenario in which I will, unless those long ~50 minute service trips past a half dozen Ford Dealers, out to the Tesla center, become a routine thing....

I have zero data to back it up but I’ve had an M3 and now an MY, one very minor service visit. You’ll read about all the ones who do, and then those who pound the poor quality drums soon after, but my money is on many less service visits. And smile when you pass the Ford dealers .

 

[raggedy]

Ford’s claim for charging network:

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...argest-electric-vehicle-charting-network.html

I notice they say “public charging network”

I take it Tesla is considered “private” since only Tesla cars can use the network. Marketing sleight of hand!

haha

Considering VAG Group had/has to put billions of dollars into Electrify America, you’d think there would be a larger rollout of public charging stations, but I know this is a big azz country to cover!

 

[ElectricIAC]

Tesla's biggest strength is their private charging network, personally. In the US though it's also a weakness in the way of using proprietary connector. Would love to see Tesla go to CCS for USDM and offer retrofit at minimal or no cost to end user.

Would I use CCS at EVGo, EA or other networks? Not if there's a Tesla branded charger just as easily accessible. But it'd be nice to have the option in a pinch. Chademo connector is cool but besides speed somewhat limited in locations.