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why not more focus on summer LRR-tyres?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by taraquin, May 11, 2015.

  1. taraquin

    taraquin Member

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    Every EV-producer does it: equip their cars with low rolling resistance summertyres, except Tesla. There are plenty of LRR-tyres with good handling in dry and wet weather. I have run many comparisons with the LRR wintertyre nokian R2 and the old stock goodyear rsa2. In 0-5C temperatures the consumption with R2 is up 15-20% lower after numerous testing in identical conditions. When temp climbs above 15C the difference is down 2 about 5%, but lets face it: 5% is actually about 15-20 km linger range, that is much. There are several tyres like Nokian hakka green and blue or goodyear efficientgrip performance with same RR as R2 and good dry/wet handling, but they are not available in TMS-approved dimensions. Why make all the extras effort with aerodynamic car, aluminum chassis etc and then dont give a f... about the tyres? Wouldn't thoose extra 15-20 km give TMS even better test-results, better paperspecs etc. In my opinion Tesla really should strike a deal with one of the big manufactorers to custom-make them and give us summertyres with both goid range and handling. What do you guys think?
     
  2. rdrcrmatt

    rdrcrmatt Member

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    Low rolling resistance means the tires are typically harder in side wall, carcass, and tread.

    Grip requires softer tread rubber, and a secret formula of sidewall and carcass rigidity, typically in a way that will end up costing energy when running the tire.

    They're a trade off of each other in most cases.
     
  3. taraquin

    taraquin Member

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    Actually the goodyear efficientgrip performance and dunlop sport bluerespons beats most of the other high performance tyres while still having significantly lower RR. Here is a test which includes both of them: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2015-AMS-Performance-Tyre-Test.htm Tesla really ought to strike a deal with one of the big brands like BMW has done for it`s i3 (bridgestone) og VW has done with e-Golf (continental). Getting a highperformance tyre with low RR should be a very cheap and wise move to improve range :)
     
  4. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    I mean, if you look at that link, the tire that took 1st place, the Continental Sport Contact 5, is one of Tesla's OEM installs. They're a pretty good balance of performance and LRR.
     
  5. matbl

    matbl Member

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    So they have changed from goodyear rs-a2's to something else as standard tyre?
    good for everyone ordering now...
    btw, I still think it would be interesting to see what would happen to the range with something like the bmw i3's tyre... Too bad bmw changed to 5/112 on that one...
     
  6. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    They've been playing around a bit with the tire options recently so this probably isn't definitive, but it depends what size wheel you order. The 19"s come with the same LRR all-season tire they've been shipping since 2013: the Michelin Primacy MXM4. The 21"s come with either the Continental ContiSportContact 5 with ContiSilent or the Michelin Pilot Super Sport on the P85Ds. If I recall correctly, the Continental ExtremeContact DW is no longer being installed.
     
  7. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Really? I wasn't aware of this. Especially since, IIRC according to Tire Rack, there's a global shortage of 21" PSS tires.
     
  8. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    The order threads show a smattering of PSS and also some PS2s. They probably (?) wanted the PSS for them all but have had to use some PS2s because of the shortage. If I recall correctly, it was the last staggered 21"s to go out that were wrapped in PSS. The reality is that the 21"s are getting a bunch of different tires and there doesn't seem to be much indication of which you'll get when you order, which is pretty unusual. They're definitely tinkering with the tire selections on the 21"s.

    In any case, the Continentals are a good mix of LRR and performance, if that's a primary goal. There's no summer tire that emphasizes LRR above all else in our sizing, unfortunately.
     
  9. taraquin

    taraquin Member

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    Continental CSC5: It sucks on rolling resistance and is slightly better at wet performance? I think for instance bluerespons is better overall. In europe we never got cars with mxm4, only with rsa2, which has an F-rating on RR which really sucks, actually few tyres has worse rating...
     
  10. linkster

    linkster Member

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    I have placed my efforts towards more efficient alignment settings, tire pressures, and driving style over LRR tires. I ran 270wh/mi last summer at 65-70mph on the flats (with or without A/C) and just under 300 lifetime (even with the very cold past winter) on OEM 21 Conti's. I have always purchased the least expensive (as long as they are name brand) tires. I truly believe that Michelin makes the best tires but they are always above my price point. I was fortunate to experience the quality of the Michelins once in that they were the OEM tires installed on my '05 (early body style) TDI where they netted me 100K miles.
     
  11. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Isn't resistance a good thing on tires?
    I want to be able to grip the road.
    When I peg the go pedal, I don't really care about much else... the car is already so efficient, why sacrifice grip for another .01 wH/mile? If anything I want more grip. I was satisfied w/my 19s until I drove a P85 with 21s... now I want those!
     
  12. taraquin

    taraquin Member

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    Resistance and grip does not nessecerily correlate. Look at the test I linked to. Some of the low RR-tyres beat tyres with much higher RR on both dry and wet roads.
     
  13. linkster

    linkster Member

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    NOOOO....please read yobigd20’s post #8 found here:

    All wheel drive and Tires

    This guy knows what he is talking about regarding 21's and doesn't mince words!
     
  14. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    In many cases, the single best upgrade you can make on a vehicle is getting better tires (brakes are arguably the other). Certainly 95%+ of the benefit you saw in that P85 were the grippy summer tires over your all-seasons (which, unfortunately, come with range loss - about 3% IIRC). The 21" sizing helps somewhat on launch, but not in an S85, and the rest of the time will hurt more than help due to the excess weight.

    Short answer, if all you care about is grip on your S85, just get better tires.
     
  15. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    I remember when Tesla started to install the Michelin Primacy MXM4. The website said the range increases by 3% over whatever they had before. That's 19 inch wheels, though.
     
  16. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Rolling resistance and coefficient of friction are totally separate tire qualities. One does not depend on the other.
     

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