Why regenerative braking belongs on the brake pedal

[JeffC]

From some of your replies to others here, I get the impression that you want Tesla Motors vehicles to drive more like machines, and less like appliances. Is that a fair assessment?

Not really sure what that means, TBH.

I'd like the regenerative braking to be integrated with the friction brakes on the brake pedal.

Everything else about the Tesla driving experience is very good. They're very clearly designed to be driver's cars. They have great suspensions, outstanding handling for such heavy, large cars, good control feel, pretty good sight lines, etc.

First and foremost, Tesla's are outstanding driver's cars. That they can also drive themselves like appliances, is an added benefit. And they really maximized the potential of EVs in making a great driver's car.

 

[GHammer]

Funny, the only time I ever see anyone advocating brake pedal regen is from a non-Tesla owner.

 

[JeffC]

Funny, the only time I ever see anyone advocating brake pedal regen is from a non-Tesla owner.

Pretty sure there are Tesla owners who would like regenerative braking to be integrated with the friction brakes. If you read my essay, a significant number of the engineers inside Tesla feel that way too.

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

My CRZ regens off throttle and I have no issue with it.

 

[bhzmark]

[Repeating same points i made 2 years ago]

It's not stopping me for buying a Tesla or two, but worth pointing out. When I test drove a Model S, .....

Please educate yourself first before commenting.

Flames to /dev/null

I thought exactly what you thought for the same reasons you thought it. See my 2013 and 2014 posts. And then I got a Tesla. Tesla's method is superior.

Please educate yourself .... by buying the car.

 

[GHammer]

Pretty sure there are Tesla owners who would like regenerative braking to be integrated with the friction brakes. If you read my essay, a significant number of the engineers inside Tesla feel that way too.

Your hearsay is no better than mine.

 

[JeffC]

I thought exactly what you thought for the same reasons you thought it. See my 2013 and 2014 posts. And then I got a Tesla. Tesla's method is superior.

Please educate yourself .... by buying the car.

I understand the reasons for both ways of doing it.

 

[JeffC]

My CRZ regens off throttle and I have no issue with it.

How heavily does it regen off throttle? Is it adjustable?

And perhaps more importantly, does it regen on the brake pedal?

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

How heavily does it regen off throttle? Is it adjustable?

And perhaps more importantly, does it regen on the brake pedal?

It slows down/regens noticeably off throttle but obviously much more when the brakes are applied.

 

[deonb]

Funny, the only time I ever see anyone advocating brake pedal regen is from a non-Tesla owner.

I see that as well here. I have both a Tesla and a Leaf, and it's not even a contest. I want the Tesla regen to be stronger, not weaker.

The ergonomic argument doesn't hold water. There is a much larger difference going from an automatic to a manual transmission than from e.g. a BMW to a Tesla.

You get used to it. Instinctively so - I joked earlier this week that you can always see a newbie who just picked up a Tesla because the brake lights are always on. But after a week or so of driving you get used to it and your muscle memory starts to rebuild.

It has to - it's not like if you own and drive a Ferrari for 25 years and when you're in an emergency that suddenly everything that you learned on that 1.3L Nissan Sentra that you did your driving course on when you were 15 kicks in and you start handling the car like it's an automatic with FWD. No, you handle it like the car you're used to driving. On a Tesla that means regen. You have to be careful when you're new to it, but that's true for any change.

I'm performance & racing trained, and I used to make it a point to put whatever car I'm driving (well for RWD cars) into oversteer at least once a week just to practice recovery. I bid you good luck trying to get a Tesla with TC on into oversteer using regen.

 

[bhzmark]

Pretty sure there are Tesla owners who would like regenerative braking to be integrated with the friction brakes. If you read my essay, a significant number of the engineers inside Tesla feel that way too.

If there were additional regeneration to be had, then I agree getting regeneration from the brakes and making electricity instead of brake dust would always be better. But from what I understand the maximum regen the batteries can take is what we have currently from the accel pedal liftoff. There is simply no more to be had.

 

[eloder]

Have you ever driven an EV?

Why shouldn't Tesla be like every other EV company out there, where you can choose between light regen braking (like an automatic) and heavy regen braking? Regen and physical braking both being on the same pedal is downright wacky. I know because I drive an EV that sometimes has very jarring transitions between physical and regen braking in normal mode when you put your foot on the brake, because they made the car exactly as you describe.

There's zero harm in providing a choice, especially on a car where the car's controls are settings are unlimited thanks to being digital.

 

[Az_Rael]

I just wish the Low regen setting would map some of the regen onto the brakes for those of us who prefer the way regular ICE cars drive - especially at freeway speeds. Sure muscle memory will eventually be obtained, but I worry that if I learn those habits that when I get in my ICE cars and drive, I will have to very, very quickly unlearn them or I will rear-end people. My Tacoma already has enough of a different stopping distance/brake feel from my Volt, that I have to be very cautious every time I get in it. A Tesla can't replace my truck (yet) so I am stuck with always having to have at least one ICE.

And, YES, I have owned and driven manual transmission cars for more years than I have driven automatics. The Volt is actually my 2nd automatic transmission car I have owned, ever. I am a coaster with a stick - I usually leave the car in its highest gear and coast/friction brake down until I can downshift without a big lurch. Not everyone drives a stick like its a race car. Mine were daily drivers - no point in keeping them in 3rd on the freeway at 70 for that engine braking upon pedal lift off.

Overall, I am not too worried about the one-pedal driving for myself. I have forcibly shifted my Volt over to its max regen setting so I can get used to it in advance of the 3. But I suspect there will be a lot of people who are turned off by it when they test drive a 3 - especially those who have never driven an EV. I feel its a love/hate thing - you either love it instantly, or you are very turned off by it.

I fully expect this subject to come up many, many times once people actually start test driving 3's.

 

[TES-E]

I think the Tesla regeneration braking is brilliant just the way it is. It took only a day or two to get used to it, and now I rarely use the mechanical brakes except to come to a full stop or the occasional need to stop faster than regeneration provides.

Don't change a thing!

 

[Tiberius]

Your complaints are heard... but if its so "wrong", why are you getting one??

Either you're emotionally/psychologically conflicted or (more likely) its not really that big of a deal breaker and you are just trying to rile people up. I think you've got a case of the lame threaditis bug that's going around.

And who exactly is your website for anyway? I have AB on so I can't tell if you're making money off of it. If not, then you clearly have WAY too much time on your hands.

 

[EVie'sDad]

No, just NO. One-pedal driving is far better and more efficient than two pedal anyday!

Don't change ANYTHING except perhaps give us a higher setting to increase regen when decellerating.

 

[JeffC]

Have you ever driven an EV?

Why shouldn't Tesla be like every other EV company out there, where you can choose between light regen braking (like an automatic) and heavy regen braking? Regen and physical braking both being on the same pedal is downright wacky. I know because I drive an EV that sometimes has very jarring transitions between physical and regen braking in normal mode when you put your foot on the brake, because they made the car exactly as you describe.

There's zero harm in providing a choice, especially on a car where the car's controls are settings are unlimited thanks to being digital.

I've been driving electric vehicles for approaching 20 years. Most EVs have the regenerative braking integrated with the brake pedal.

 

[JeffC]

Your complaints are heard... but if its so "wrong", why are you getting one??

Either you're emotionally/psychologically conflicted or (more likely) its not really that big of a deal breaker and you are just trying to rile people up. I think you've got a case of the lame threaditis bug that's going around.

And who exactly is your website for anyway? I have AB on so I can't tell if you're making money off of it. If not, then you clearly have WAY too much time on your hands.

I plan to drive with Regen set to Low, and use Autopilot and Auto Cruise Control a lot. Autopilot/ACC uses regen to slow down before getting into the friction brakes.

It's good that there are two settings for regen on Model S and X. Better would be to have regen integrated with the brake pedal, as on most other EVs and hybrids.

My web site is my personal web site. It has no ads. I've been working on it long before Google existed. Haven't actually updated it very often. I've had a blog since before blogs existed, it seems.

P.S. I was on the Internet before 1980. It was called Arpanet then.

 

[JeffC]

No, just NO. One-pedal driving is far better and more efficient than two pedal anyday!

Don't change ANYTHING except perhaps give us a higher setting to increase regen when decellerating.

The issue is mostly about trailing throttle oversteer. Regen on throttle makes it a much bigger problem.

 

[EVie'sDad]

slowing will be reduced with less regen, just saying from personal experience. I use standard regen and that is fine, and restores the most amount of energy to the batteries, thus increases range.