"Why should I pay for your gas? I'm not paying for anyone else's gas"

[tbolme93]

Hey guys,

I am trying to convince my employer that the amount of electricity pulled from a standard 120v outlet to charge a Tesla is a very small amount. I know there is only so much output one single outlet can have. What is an easy way to quantify this to the average person? What is another single device that gets plugged in every day that would cost similar, or pull a similar amount of power? Is the Tesla maxing out the output that it can give? and if so, what else could do that? And how much extra monthly cost could charging a tesla really incur if its only getting a couple % every day? Thoughts/discussion/comments appreciated!

 

[linux-works]

We can agree to disagree. yes, this is exactly "asking for a tank of friggen gas", as other employess would see it. No employee is going to equate a cup of coffee to free commutes to work, even if the cost works out to be the same per employee. They just wont.

its called 'taking a leadership position'.

wait, are we talking about school-age kids, here, or full grown adults?

he got a cookie; why cant everyone get a cookie? really?

again, who are we dealing with, here? does the employer consider their employees human beings or just human resources?

(trick question; dont answer that)

 

[linux-works]

I would focus on cost. Basically the car is going to consume 1.44 kWh of electricity each hour. Over the course of 8 hours, this is 11.52 kWh per day (assuming the car doesn't actually complete charging by then). Multiply that times the cost of electricity in your area (say $0.12/kWh) and you can figure the cost of electricity per day. As you can see, it's going to be in the range of $1.50 or so, per day.

if the math is right and it works out to be a few dollars a day, wow. if ANY employer complains about this, that's the red flag to quit and/or move.

I do have to admit, I can't understand the thought process behind a denial from a business to an employee about a few dollars a day. can't understand one bit of that. you'd have to generate noise just to reach zero; that's how low that is.

 

[cpa]

if the math is right and it works out to be a few dollars a day, wow. if ANY employer complains about this, that's the red flag to quit and/or move.

I do have to admit, I can't understand the thought process behind a denial from a business to an employee about a few dollars a day. can't understand one bit of that. you'd have to generate noise just to reach zero; that's how low that is.

Yeah, I agree in part and am undecided in part.

Working for someone who is petty and cheap generally equates to a workplace that is not best. Ebenezer Scrooge comes to mind.

On the other hand, an employer does not want to set precedent, either. Perhaps within the next 5-7 years more employees will be driving BEVs and would also like to avail themselves of "free" electricity.

Perhaps an equitable solution would be to have the company install a public charger like ChargePoint and have the user pay for the juice. Forget trickle charging. And the other employees can't gripe about free juice.

 

[linux-works]

thing is, a lot of employers think nothing of asking you to work late or weekends or make sacrifices. if you are salaried, its not unreasonable to ask for a convenience and if that costs noise-level amount of money, just dont even complain about it.

if you are hourly and under the camera and spied upon all the time - if you work in a situation like that, ok, I guess 'every dollar counts'. hopefully no one beyond teen age years works at such places.

can I use the word Dickensian? I've been waiting a while to use that word.

I suppose the more modern phrase is 'race to the bottom'.

 

[DblOSmith]

Another way to look at it... at $480 per person per year, divided by 47 work weeks in a year, divided by 40 hour work week is only $.25/hr. I get companies balking over almost doubling their wages from $8 to $15/hour... but if you can't afford to pay your people a quarter more an hour, you do have bigger problems in your business. However, I don't think you'll get anywhere talking about the money, even if you can prove the something will save a bit of money. A tight-ass employer will always see their planning and logistics and liability costs as higher than the money they're saving. What would convince them is their image. Grants would help, so look for those, but honestly pitching it as something like:

"Company X, and their sustained efforts to create a greener future, in cooperation with Electrical Company Y, Hipster Grocery Store Z, and Coffee Shop Alpha, will be opening a opening a __kW fast charger. Anyone using it gets a free coffee from Coffee Shop Alpha..."

Or whatever. Talk about missions/visions/image.... not money.

 

[mrbulk]

If I were the employer my main concern after still being reassured it would result in minimal cost, is how to handle subsequent requests by other workers (maybe all go out and buy EVs too now) or prevent the appearance of preferential treatment.

Also I did not see it in the OP but are the parking spaces where the 110V plugs are located, reserved for specific workers? Meaning what if he got to work one day and all the 110V-plugged spaces were blocked? Just wondering since I did not see enough detailed info on the many questions that might arise regarding this situation, although I do hope it works out if an EV is purchased.

 

[wws]

I don't understand - if there are already receptacles for ICE block heaters in the parking lot, why would they object if you used one for your car?

 

[mp0i]

Generally, we lock down the convenience outlets to prevent unauthorized use. The electrical outlets are typically there for maintenance equipment and not individuals. Funny that those that can afford $50,000+ for cars feel entitled to receive free electricity to run them. We do provide Chargepoint and Electrify America pedestals for charging if needed. Convenient but not subsidized.

 

[wws]

Generally, we lock down the convenience outlets to prevent unauthorized use. The electrical outlets are typically there for maintenance equipment and not individuals. Funny that those that can afford $50,000+ for cars feel entitled to receive free electricity to run them. We do provide Chargepoint and Electrify America pedestals for charging if needed. Convenient but not subsidized.

Of course. But back in post #13, the OP wrote:

For the record, I am not looking for a handout. Nor would I fight my employer for saying no. They have that right, and that seems fair to me. There are already outlets installed in the parking lots that were put in place for cars with block heaters, because it gets so cold up here in ND that you actually do need it some days. There is an outlet for every spot in the lot...

 

[linux-works]

paying cost of electricity is also fine by most, myself included.

but it can (and often is) a point of competition and if the other 'job creator' offers charging and yours does not, well, go where the best deal is.

 

[denverag03]

Another thing to me that hangs over these sort of arguments, but doesn’t resolve anything, is that ICE cars already benefit from so many externalities not paid for. We’re all paying for that “gas”. I think if all the costs were on the table (carbon pricing in the US at least), it would be slightly easier to find fairness.

 

[DblOSmith]

Another thing to me that hangs over these sort of arguments, but doesn’t resolve anything, is that ICE cars already benefit from so many externalities not paid for. We’re all paying for that “gas”. I think if all the costs were on the table (carbon pricing in the US at least), it would be slightly easier to find fairness.

Agreed. Everything is so convoluted. Part of paying for gasoline-related expenses is in gas taxes, registration fees, state income taxes, sales taxes, etc. Who knows what the real apples to apples comparison is. Only thing we know is that everything is foggy enough for some shenanigans and misinformation to happen.

 

[outdoors]

its called 'taking a leadership position'.

Very hard to do these days, but retaining talent even in the most miniscule ways works. If I had 30(key)employees that all wanted EV charging and the cost was minimal/moderate. I would do it in a heartbeat. Even if it was one key employee. Sometimes the effort or winning the hearts and minds of your employees is more than just the paycheck. People vote with their feet these days.

I am not so sure about always taking the strategy about worrying about everyone else and their thoughts. No one takes risks, and always looking over one's shoulder is not how I like to run things. Seems like leading from behind.

On the OP question. I just use my Teslfi data when I travel and payout based on highest local electric rates. Leave it on the table with a breakdown of usage for a couple days. Think you could do the same and then buy a couple of non recyclable K cups for the office break room monthly.

 

[DblOSmith]

Very hard to do these days, but retaining talent even in the most miniscule ways works. If I had 30(key)employees that all wanted EV charging and the cost was minimal/moderate. I would do it in a heartbeat. Even if it was one key employee. Sometimes the effort or winning the hearts and minds of your employees is more than just the paycheck. People vote with their feet these days.

I am not so sure about always taking the strategy about worrying about everyone else and their thoughts. No one takes risks, and always looking over one's shoulder is not how I like to run things. Seems like leading from behind.

On the OP question. I just use my Teslfi data when I travel and payout based on highest local electric rates. Leave it on the table with a breakdown of usage for a couple days. Think you could do the same and then buy a couple of non recyclable K cups for the office break room monthly.

I run a small business and I agree 100%. Sometimes it's the little things that count and you should invest in your employees just like you invest in your company. You can't complain about turnover costs AND treat your people like their wants and suggestions are irrelevant.

 

[CyberGus]

 

[CyberGus]

 

[jya*]

Pre-pandemic, I drove my Fiat 500e to work, 14 miles each way. I bought the car for this commute and had not set up home charging for it yet, so I was charging at work as much as possible. The building and garage were leased, so actions were taken by the building owners, not my employer. There were about 10 Chargepoint chargers, which would regularly be full in the morning. There were 120 outlets on the upper floors- perfectly sufficient for my relatively short commute. I tried plugging in one of the many times the L2 chargers were full. After about a week I came back to my car unplugged from the outlet. Then a fake parking ticket with the reason "EVs must park at the chargers." Then some black tape over the outlet. I asked my employer to convince them to install more chargers and let me plug in to the 120V until they did, so that I could more easily have reliable charging to get to work. They asked and the answer was no.

Then 2020 happened, my entire company went remote and we ended our lease. I'm sure they're glad they saved themselves a few dollars and made their point while they had the chance.

This is not a red state thing, I'm in Massachusetts, a very blue state. Unfortunately we're still fighting every step to make EV charging more available. My town has way more EVs than 5 years ago and hasn't added a single public charging station in that time. Half the population are renters and there are many older buildings built during horse and buggy times; home charging is just not an option for them.