Why stores offer free EV charging? Not free gas?

What is the concept for shopping centers to have free EV charging? In theory it's just for customers, but no one is watching it or enforcing that it's customers only where it requires a validation. I think the only thing they can enforce is the hours the EV charger will work, like some shopping centers may shut them off at night so no one is gonna try get free electricity while the shopping center is closed at 2am.

Maybe someone lives very close to the shopping center and tries to charge for free every single night, but probably won't be practical to do it every single day. But there was an opportunity for me to get free charging nearly the entire trip while I was in AZ. I stayed at my friend's apartment in Glendale which is very close to the State Farm Arena. His apartment though had no EV charging and I really preferred charging overnight instead of waiting an hour each time at a supercharger. There were Voltas nearby, but that shopping center puts up barricades and has security enforcing for no car to be there after closing hours. But there was a free Chargepoint near the Carls Jr with no barricades and there was never a car there at night. So I was lucky and I got free 100% charging every single night we went back to his apartment. Pretty much got to commute everyday for free while in the Phoenix area with no stopping at superchargers because most our commutes were do-able with 100% round trip.

And how I got back to his apartment each night? I had my E-scooter in the trunk so I just use that to commute 1 mile from the apartment to the free chargepoint. So it was super self sufficient, no need to use his gas car or an uber to try get back to his apartment.

I also plan to do this while in Las Vegas, there are alot of free charging options there and I have gotten by getting a free charge the entire trip.

I did go to the Oakley outlet store once though so I guess having that free charging got me to spend some money. Plus I bought food at that Carls Jr. So even though I didn't intend to spend money at the mall, I still did spend money anyways.

I never saw another EV car there charging overnight, so it seems no one is really that interested in taking advantage of free charging at night. But if a gas station has free gas or insanely cheap prices by mistake (which has happened), hoards of people will start showing up until the gas station realizes their mistake. I never seen a shopping center give away free gas or have discounted gas stations to draw in customers. Maybe Costco does though, they give a slight discount on gas and they always got super long lines during prime driving hours.

However, level 2 charging is slow and doesn't really do much if its going to be 0-2 hours. I don't think anyone will force themselves to stay 6+ hours just to charge for free. But if there is free charging near a Dave and Busters, I can be there for 6+ hours because I'm an advantage player so I can actually get a decent charge. The only Dave and Busters I know that have free EV charging are San Diego, Northridge, Long Beach, and Las Vegas. So I get to profit from Dave and Busters and get a free charge. My other AP friend can't do that, he drives a Honda Civic and I'm always the one that ends up driving so he will win me tickets on my card at a profit. Or help me sell some my big prizes (by paying me and sell it later).

 

[Sophias_dad]

You've answered your own question, L2 charging for customers isn't a very large cost during the day. They could presumably limit charging periods to two hours(I think I saw that at Wegmans), and enforce it in software.

When/if they figure out that people are charging overnight, there are certainly ways for them to disable charging overnight, whether physical or software. I'd wager Chargepoint already has this ability.

 

[outdoors]

In response to title.

Gasoline and it's inherent storage risks are not something that most businesses use on a day-to-day basis and that can also supply its customers to attract or offer as utility. Also needs to be readily available safely. Not sure gasoline would be easy for all types of business to store and hand out in small amounts to say thanks for stopping by.

Electricity seems to fit the bill in all cases mentioned. Some give it for free, some charge. Hey some say not while we are closed. We are in an infancy of electric car charging. Maybe a wild west. Sure it will all settle down or not in time.

 

[ElectricIAC]

What is the concept for shopping centers to have free EV charging? In theory it's just for customers, but no one is watching it or enforcing that it's customers only where it requires a validation. I think the only thing they can enforce is the hours the EV charger will work, like some shopping centers may shut them off at night so no one is gonna try get free electricity while the shopping center is closed at 2am.

Maybe someone lives very close to the shopping center and tries to charge for free every single night, but probably won't be practical to do it every single day. But there was an opportunity for me to get free charging nearly the entire trip while I was in AZ. I stayed at my friend's apartment in Glendale which is very close to the State Farm Arena. His apartment though had no EV charging and I really preferred charging overnight instead of waiting an hour each time at a supercharger. There were Voltas nearby, but that shopping center puts up barricades and has security enforcing for no car to be there after closing hours. But there was a free Chargepoint near the Carls Jr with no barricades and there was never a car there at night. So I was lucky and I got free 100% charging every single night we went back to his apartment. Pretty much got to commute everyday for free while in the Phoenix area with no stopping at superchargers because most our commutes were do-able with 100% round trip.

And how I got back to his apartment each night? I had my E-scooter in the trunk so I just use that to commute 1 mile from the apartment to the free chargepoint. So it was super self sufficient, no need to use his gas car or an uber to try get back to his apartment.

I also plan to do this while in Las Vegas, there are alot of free charging options there and I have gotten by getting a free charge the entire trip.

I did go to the Oakley outlet store once though so I guess having that free charging got me to spend some money. Plus I bought food at that Carls Jr. So even though I didn't intend to spend money at the mall, I still did spend money anyways.

I never saw another EV car there charging overnight, so it seems no one is really that interested in taking advantage of free charging at night. But if a gas station has free gas or insanely cheap prices by mistake (which has happened), hoards of people will start showing up until the gas station realizes their mistake. I never seen a shopping center give away free gas or have discounted gas stations to draw in customers. Maybe Costco does though, they give a slight discount on gas and they always got super long lines during prime driving hours.

However, level 2 charging is slow and doesn't really do much if its going to be 0-2 hours. I don't think anyone will force themselves to stay 6+ hours just to charge for free. But if there is free charging near a Dave and Busters, I can be there for 6+ hours because I'm an advantage player so I can actually get a decent charge. The only Dave and Busters I know that have free EV charging are San Diego, Northridge, Long Beach, and Las Vegas. So I get to profit from Dave and Busters and get a free charge. My other AP friend can't do that, he drives a Honda Civic and I'm always the one that ends up driving so he will win me tickets on my card at a profit. Or help me sell some my big prizes (by paying me and sell it later).

In many cases, electricity is cheaper than gas.

Its also cheaper to install L2 chargers than gas pumps.

 

[RayK]

Once EV vehicles passes some threshold of the population (25%, 50%, 60%, 70%?), places which currently offer free charging will probably pull back and start billing people. Right now there's not many EVs as a whole but when some saturation percentage is reached, the free ride will end.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Once EV vehicles passes some threshold of the population (25%, 50%, 60%, 70%?), places which currently offer free charging will probably pull back and start billing people. Right now there's not many EVs as a whole but when some saturation percentage is reached, the free ride will end.

Or they will limit the fee free period to a reasonable shopping time.

 

[MY1stEV]

What is the concept for shopping centers to have free EV charging?

It's a cheap perk. Typically they are throttled at about 8kW and limited to no more than 2 hours. Essentially the local merchant is saying, if you drive your EV to shop here, I'll give you back the some the charge you expended getting here. A lot of these charging stations are sponsored (run ads) and may even receive public utility and government subsidies, so this perk costs them very little.

Personally, I never use them... unless the parking lot is full and then they are worth the effort to rummage thru all the compartments in my car trying to find where I last stashed the J-1772 adapter.

 

[jjrandorin]

Once EV vehicles passes some threshold of the population (25%, 50%, 60%, 70%?), places which currently offer free charging will probably pull back and start billing people. Right now there's not many EVs as a whole but when some saturation percentage is reached, the free ride will end.

That will be hastened by people who do things like, oh I dont know, parking in a business parking lot all night to get free electricity when they are not patronizing the location.

There is no way that free electricity can last at scale, but its going to be another in a long line of "why we cant have nice things" when businesses see either no increase in business putting in charging, or get reports of people camping out at free charges cause "if its free its for me" mentality.

 

[ElectricIAC]

"if its free its for me"

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[outdoors]

There is no way that free electricity can last at scale, but its going to be another in a long line of "why we cant have nice things" when businesses see either no increase in business putting in charging, or get reports of people camping out at free charges cause "if its free its for me" mentality.

Yeah I remember I wrote a post years ago about a person that would go to the (local to them) state park that had free charging at the beach. Would go through the mail for 2 hours and listen to music each day. All while people that would travel to such destination would wait. Area was gated at night. Free can go away for me. Some need it. I guess. That person lived less than 2 miles from beach. Frustrating. Met some other really nice ev owners during the waiting. Even played volleyball with them. Bad apples try to spoil the bunch.

 

[cwerdna]

You've answered your own question, L2 charging for customers isn't a very large cost during the day. They could presumably limit charging periods to two hours(I think I saw that at Wegmans), and enforce it in software.

When/if they figure out that people are charging overnight, there are certainly ways for them to disable charging overnight, whether physical or software. I'd wager Chargepoint already has this ability.

For ChargePoint, there certainly are ways to. I've personally used ChargePoint stations that have limited hours and "close" once they reach certain times of day set by the station. The session may stop or it may let you finish.

You (usually) will be unable to initiate a new session when the station is "closed". I believe I had cases where it still worked or maybe I forced it work by using the EVgo app since ChargePoint and EVgo have partner roaming agreements. Not clear if this was a bug, by design or something configurable by the station owner.

A current example of such stations are the ones at
TARGET CORP
FREMONT SOUTH 2
43840 Pacific Commons Blvd
Fremont, CA

If you look at the listing (via ChargePoint), you'll see the station is only open 7 am to midnight.

 

[RayK]

Well, for me, having access to free L3 charging (75 minutes per session; more on this later) that is located 14 miles from my home is not enough for me to partake, unless some very specific conditions are met. For several years now I've been using a ChargePoint CHAdeMO station about a mile from my house. Cost there is $0.19/kWh. At times I've used the local Supercharger which cost about double that at peak times. If I spent about 45 minutes driving (round trip during non-commute times) I could get the juice for free 24/7. But I don't think it's worth it.

If you've read my posts over the years you may remember that when I was employed I had access to charging in the employee parking structure (restricted access using license plate readers at every gate). Both ChargePoint L2 and L3 stations. We had ChargePoint accounts, which were only available to company employees, that would activate the stations and time your session. L2 stations would allow for 4 hours, while the DCFC was limited to 75 minutes; after that there was an idle fee charged to your account. However, there was nothing preventing one from unplugging from one station when you hit the time limit and moving to another and getting another 4 hours (or 75 minutes). So there was some gaming of the system by the employees (guilty in several instances).

In the past I've used a couple of free public L2 stations but most of my public free charging has been with the CHAdeMO adapter. A couple of times have been around town when EA has offered free juice during a holiday but most of the free CHAdeMO power has been when I'm traveling. I don't spend enough time at a mall or shopping to get enough range to be worth plugging into a L2 station but I might if L3 is available. Does that make me a charging snob?

 

[RTPEV]

By and large, the only "free" stations are level 2 or dealership fast charging stations, and even many of those are going to a pay model. And many of those free stations were probably the result of some kind of grant that paid for the station. Since they aren't going to dispense a ton of electricity, for many of those sites it's not like someone staying for 6 hours is going to break the bank, and they probably hope that the fact that they are hosting a charging station will attract EV drivers to their establishment over a competitor. Certainly places like hotels and downtown parking lots are looking to attract patrons. This is much different than giving away gas, which would be far less convenient and not economically sustainable. That said, many grocery stores do offer "fuel points" which give discounts on gas, so while it's not giving it away, it is subsidizing it, usually at a rate that is greater than the amount of free electricity that would be provided by a level 2 station.

Regarding ChargePoint's ability to regulate free (or cheap) charging, they have the ability to increase the per kWh (or per minute/hour) cost after a certain amount of time. For example, there are chargers at the American Tobacco Campus in Durham, NC that are very reasonably priced for the first 4 hours, and after that the cost jumps up to a pretty ridiculous amount. And the fee is regardless of whether you are actively charging or not. So if a host site wanted to provide a disincentive to people parking for 6 hours at a time, they could certainly do that.

Personally I think free stations are generally a bad idea. Except for certain cases, such as hotels, where it is a very clear amenity for patrons, and patrons would be expected to leave their cars overnight until they get a full charge, free charging stations usually attract those who may not actually need a charge but are cheap enough to want to save $3 of electricity, possibly blocking the charging station for someone that actually needs the charge. And because it is a net expense to the host, they tend not to care much about whether the thing is even working or not. Even charging a nominal fee tends to keep the freeloaders away who are literally looking for free, while providing an affordable service to those who actually need it.

 

[cwerdna]

And, to RayK's point, 19 cents per kWh is cheaper than what Pathetic Gouge & Extort wants for EV2-A off-peak (cheapest rate).

 

[ElectricIAC]

And, to RayK's point, 19 cents per kWh is cheaper than what Pathetic Gouge & Extort wants for EV2-A off-peak (cheapest rate).

Thumbs up for the moniker

 

[Rottenapplr]

We moved from my house to an apartment temporarily. For 50 for the garage plus ev plug access for another 50, I can plug in and charge. Charging is flat 50. Given I drive on average 2200 mile per month, my charging cost is $100 regardless of house I drive. I don’t even bother go to free charging anymore. And in socal charging is .20. /kwh. We are looking to buy a place in a few months and the home has ev conduits ready so looking forward to owning charging and installing solar. Before my charging cost at home was around $150 to 220 depending. Anyway the point of my post is that renewable energy is awesome that an apartment complex can offer garage quipped with ev charging that non metered. Best that ice.

 

[rotom3]

At least for malls near me it seems like a nice little incentive for customers, and it could help draw in customers that would otherwise go somewhere else which would make up for the costs. For me at least there's some places I'll go that are equidistant to me, and I'll choose one over another because I essentially can get my miles back by charging while shopping

I've noticed some local places near me have either started charging for it, or some making their chargers be more restrictive and not open to everyone. Especially this year after the huge rush to ditch ICE and get electric cars.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I've noticed some local places near me have either started charging for it, or some making their chargers be more restrictive and not open to everyone. Especially this year after the huge rush to ditch ICE and get electric cars.

Volta

 

[cwerdna]

Yep. OP mentioned Volta (Volta Charging - The most utilized EV Charging Stations). I've used a bunch here and there.

I used ALDI | PlugShare for a bit when I was visiting So Cal.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Oddly enough, I’ve had several instances where an EVGo didn’t charge me when passing in with Chargepoint app.