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Why the Cybertruck looks the way it does

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Cosmacelf

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Mar 6, 2013
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I mean, other than Elon's tastes, of course :)

I believe the development of it started with efficiency. As Elon pointed out in his presentation, traditional truck body on frame wastes weight since you need a strong frame and then you need to be as skimpy as possible on body panels since they provide no structural benefit, they are just there for looks and crash protection. Add in heavy batteries, and you've got a very heavy and thus inefficient, and thus expensive, truck. If the range and pricing weren't going to pencil out to something that could compete with an F150, why even bother?

That's the bind Rivian is in. It has a short bed (it's a smaller vehicle), and costs a lot compared to its specs/utility.

So to get both the specs/utility and the price to be competitive with an F150, they pretty much had to go with a stressed skin design, which gets rid of the heavy frame. The body panels are now no longer useless weight, they are now structural elements. This directly results in two things however. One is the need for sail panels at the back (the triangle piece that goes along the truck bed). This is needed for structural reasons. Other monobody trucks (there have been a few) also needed this structural sail, but for design reasons, they softened their look (see the triangle piece on the original Honda Ridgeline: https://www.123securityproducts.com...3525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/v/rvs-718523-05.jpg)

The other thing a stressed skin design results in (if you want to be weight efficient) is that you can't stamp your parts into complex shapes. Flat sheets of metal are strong, curvy complex ones are less so (all else being equal).

Then we have the cost factor. It is cheaper to manufacture body panels with simple bends in them, as opposed to stamped panels that require huge stamping presses. And, of course, it is much cheaper to not have a paint shop.

Finally, there is aerodynamics. If you're going to have a triangular sail, then it is easy to to have a cover, which helps range enormously. The particular angles in the roofline were no doubt chosen for aero efficiency.

So what do you end up with? A very unconventional design (which, netting out young at heart buyers and naysayers, might be sales neutral), that has some utility tradeoffs (harder to bolt on ladder frames, yet the stainless steel results in a beast of a truck that is impervious to dings and scratches), but in the end is cost and utility competitive with an F150.

And that makes the cybertruck stand alone in the market. No other EV truck competitor can say that. They are all too expensive relative to their utility.

The bottom line is that if the cybertruck looked like a conventional truck, even Tesla couldn't have made it cost/utility competitive with an F150. It was a bold decision to forgo traditional styling, but I think the tradeoff of a better functional EV truck was worth it. We'll have to wait a few years to see if the market agrees.
 
I didn't mean to knock Rivian, BTW. What makes sense for Tesla doesn't make sense for Rivian and vice versa. Just like Tesla initially was for the Model S, as a startup Rivian can only build 20,000 vehicles per year. So, like the Model S, it makes sense for them to make a higher priced product that will appeal to a niche market. The R1T has less utility than an F150 and costs more, but it is an EV and it does have conventional styling, so they'll find a market for it at 20,000 units a year (BTW I think their SUV makes more sense, since no one else has a full size EV SUV).

Tesla, OTOH, needs a high volume vehicle. It makes no sense for them to sell 20,000 units of a $70K+ truck. It just doesn't move the needle anymore. Elon is betting that pricing and functionality trumps traditional styling, and is hoping the truck will be a 100,000+/yr unit vehicle.
 
I didn't mean to knock Rivian, BTW. What makes sense for Tesla doesn't make sense for Rivian and vice versa. Just like Tesla initially was for the Model S, as a startup Rivian can only build 20,000 vehicles per year. So, like the Model S, it makes sense for them to make a higher priced product that will appeal to a niche market. The R1T has less utility than an F150 and costs more, but it is an EV and it does have conventional styling, so they'll find a market for it at 20,000 units a year (BTW I think their SUV makes more sense, since no one else has a full size EV SUV).

Tesla, OTOH, needs a high volume vehicle. It makes no sense for them to sell 20,000 units of a $70K+ truck. It just doesn't move the needle anymore. Elon is betting that pricing and functionality trumps traditional styling, and is hoping the truck will be a 100,000+/yr unit vehicle.
Doesn’t Rivian already have 100,000+ orders?
 
Final thought. This is why Elon is such a good CEO. People think rolling the dice with this whacked out design is very risky. But going with a conventional design, and attendant higher pricing, is just as risky if not more so.
It’s risky to create a truck that looks like a normal truck but beats competitors with better performance and less maintenance? That doesn’t make sense
 
Doesn’t Rivian already have 100,000+ orders?

Afaik, RIvian hasn’t released pre order numbers. If you’re talking about the Amazon 100,000 truck order: “Amazon plans to have its first deliveries with the vehicles by 2021 and have all of the new trucks on the road by 2030”. The Amazon order is spread over nine years...
 
No I caught that part. The cheaper version is roughly 15% of preorders. If they created a more attractive truck they could have easily priced it at $49,999 as originally planned

We really don’t know what price they could have hit with a conventional truck design. RIvian couldn’t hit $49,999 for this size truck. My thesis is that Tesla couldn’t either.
 
Final thought. This is why Elon is such a good CEO. People think rolling the dice with this whacked out design is very risky. But going with a conventional design, and attendant higher pricing, is just as risky if not more so.

Man you nailed it! Obviously you did your research to try and understand everything about this move. Motor Trend had exclusive access to Tesla for the reveal and a lot of what they wrote about is exactly what you described.

This is a true form following function design approach that had to be delicately balanced with capability, price and looks. Now I like Tesla’s strategy with everything they decided to do with the Cyber Truck but only time will tell if everything they are aiming for works out in reality. I completely agree with everything you said and think this is a really exciting move.
 
I’m okay with an unconventional design if it’s motivated by function. Now if the Cyber Truck was weird just for the sake of being weird, or just to fulfill some novelty sci-fi infatuation, then no thanks. Of course Elon could have designed the Cyber Truck just based off the way he wanted it to look and then try to justify it with all of this rational engineering logic. But once again, time will tell. Interesting times.
 
I mean, other than Elon's tastes, of course :)

I believe the development of it started with efficiency. As Elon pointed out in his presentation, traditional truck body on frame wastes weight since you need a strong frame and then you need to be as skimpy as possible on body panels since they provide no structural benefit, they are just there for looks and crash protection. Add in heavy batteries, and you've got a very heavy and thus inefficient, and thus expensive, truck. If the range and pricing weren't going to pencil out to something that could compete with an F150, why even bother?

That's the bind Rivian is in. It has a short bed (it's a smaller vehicle), and costs a lot compared to its specs/utility.

So to get both the specs/utility and the price to be competitive with an F150, they pretty much had to go with a stressed skin design, which gets rid of the heavy frame. The body panels are now no longer useless weight, they are now structural elements. This directly results in two things however. One is the need for sail panels at the back (the triangle piece that goes along the truck bed). This is needed for structural reasons. Other monobody trucks (there have been a few) also needed this structural sail, but for design reasons, they softened their look (see the triangle piece on the original Honda Ridgeline: https://www.123securityproducts.com...3525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/v/rvs-718523-05.jpg)

The other thing a stressed skin design results in (if you want to be weight efficient) is that you can't stamp your parts into complex shapes. Flat sheets of metal are strong, curvy complex ones are less so (all else being equal).

Then we have the cost factor. It is cheaper to manufacture body panels with simple bends in them, as opposed to stamped panels that require huge stamping presses. And, of course, it is much cheaper to not have a paint shop.

Finally, there is aerodynamics. If you're going to have a triangular sail, then it is easy to to have a cover, which helps range enormously. The particular angles in the roofline were no doubt chosen for aero efficiency.

So what do you end up with? A very unconventional design (which, netting out young at heart buyers and naysayers, might be sales neutral), that has some utility tradeoffs (harder to bolt on ladder frames, yet the stainless steel results in a beast of a truck that is impervious to dings and scratches), but in the end is cost and utility competitive with an F150.

And that makes the cybertruck stand alone in the market. No other EV truck competitor can say that. They are all too expensive relative to their utility.

The bottom line is that if the cybertruck looked like a conventional truck, even Tesla couldn't have made it cost/utility competitive with an F150. It was a bold decision to forgo traditional styling, but I think the tradeoff of a better functional EV truck was worth it. We'll have to wait a few years to see if the market agrees.

This is a great recap into the thinking that lead to what we saw on Thursday. Seeing all the straight body panels on Thursday, my immediate thought was the cost saving of not have to have expensive Body stamping molds made was one of the big reasons for the low price and a motivator for that design direction,
But you are absolutely right in pointing out that the Rigid exoskeleton is need for Weight savings and ultimately performance. And without that performance, this would just be a slow, heavy, expensive electric Truck that would fail because it would not beat its competitors where it matters. Function.
 
Can someone walk me through how they think the exoskeleton will fit together? Is there a stamped steel side for driver and passenger side, underside for battery, and the sails, then are they all welded together?

I understand the simplicity of the process, but don't understand how they all fit together. Is it 10 pieces made to form the exoskeleton, or is it 1 or 2 pieces made to form the exoskeleton?
 
While I do think that Elon calls the shots for several or perhaps many of the overall design decisions, let's not forget to give Franz some props for making the designs come to life...

I would also recommend going to the Motor Trend website and reading the various articles and watching the videos they have produced about their early access to the truck design.

Here's my favorite quote:
With Black Sabbath and Tool blaring from an unseen stereo, the workshop was frenzied with activity. It was mid-afternoon Friday; Elon wanted Tesla's EV pickup assembled and driving through the SpaceX factory by Sunday. The reveal was two weeks away.

Link to the article:
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/cybertruck/2021/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-photos-info
 
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Can someone walk me through how they think the exoskeleton will fit together? Is there a stamped steel side for driver and passenger side, underside for battery, and the sails, then are they all welded together?

I understand the simplicity of the process, but don't understand how they all fit together. Is it 10 pieces made to form the exoskeleton, or is it 1 or 2 pieces made to form the exoskeleton?


No stamping. This cold rolled alloy would fracture if you built a machine strong enough to stamp it, and will laugh at your average stamping machine. That’s a big part of why it’s flat panels, along with the buckling margins (flat sheets are much sturdier in compression than curved ones.)

Instead, it’s like paper modeling - cut the flat sheet to shape, score fold lines, fold along the score lines, and glue (weld) edges.

I’m thinking they’ll probably do a left shell and a right shell and add front and rear and cross beams to make the car, but that’s just a guess - there are a bunch of options and I haven’t seen any evidence of a specific choice.

The might plan to do mass production differently than the did this prototype, too.
 
Afaik, RIvian hasn’t released pre order numbers. If you’re talking about the Amazon 100,000 truck order: “Amazon plans to have its first deliveries with the vehicles by 2021 and have all of the new trucks on the road by 2030”. The Amazon order is spread over nine years...


Also, the Amazon order is for delivery vehicles. Likely built on a variant of the same skateboard, but something that does no exist today. And Amazon owns a large share in Rivian having given them $700M, and has a vested interest in ensuring the company gets orders.
 
It’s risky to create a truck that looks like a normal truck but beats competitors with better performance and less maintenance? That doesn’t make sense
Actually, it does make sense. If it looks the same, and is perceived to be mostly the same, not too many will change because most will just look at the picture and say "I like the look of my Ford/Dodge/GM better and each has more configurations to choose from" and move on.
 
One of the biggest problems with legacy pickups can easily be seen when they drive down the road. Their chassis has tremendous flex. This is why the beds are not mounted to the cabs. There is a gap between them to allow for this flex. You can actually see the beds wobble when on uneven pavement.

The Tesla Truck, on the other hand is made of the strongest geometric design of all...the triangle. All custom race cars are built of triangulated tubing to give maximum resistance to bending.

This design alone will give the Tesla Truck a tremendous advantage in strength.
 
The bottom line is that if the cybertruck looked like a conventional truck, even Tesla couldn't have made it cost/utility competitive with an F150. It was a bold decision to forgo traditional styling, but I think the tradeoff of a better functional EV truck was worth it. We'll have to wait a few years to see if the market agrees.

Thanks for the analysis. I was typing in almost exactly the same thing in another thread yesterday morning.

As a new entrant to the market, Tesla needs to provide MORE functionality (including lots of range) for LESS cost; and given the cost and weight of trucks, batteries and lack of aero, and I completely agree with you that there was no way they could hit that with a conventional design. The exoskeleton was the key, and that choice drove the need for angles and sails. Too bad they didn't explain it better in the presentation.

There are serious downsides to this design (appearance, ability to produce variants, side-loading, using existing campers/toppers, etc) so this design will not get anywhere near 100% of the market. But 100% was never possible or the goal...with this design they can hit their real goal, which was to take away enough profit (they don't have to take it all!) in the most-profitable segment that other automakers have to respond with electric versions of their own. It shows clearly that electric trucks can be cheaper and better.

I really don't like the way it looks, but I too think they made the right call. (Especially given that few buy trucks because they are pretty). But over the next couple of years there will be a lot of people making a lot of hay about the appearance and resulting lack of demand until it actually starts selling. Then once it starts selling, they will say the initial demand is just backlog from fanbois, and will soon drop off a cliff. Then when demand continues...well, they will probably focus on something else.
 
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The exoskeleton was the key, and that choice drove the need for angles and sails. Too bad they didn't explain it better in the presentation.

Explaining why it looks the way it does helps you and me, but maybe it wasn't the right message for others. In the final analysis, they built it the way they did for cost reasons. But that's a pretty bad marketing message: This was the lowest cost design! Woo hoo!

Instead, their marketing message is, hey, we totally wanted this bold, innovative and functional styling!
 
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