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Why there is so much consternation about Tesla rapid pricing changes

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I feel like a lot of us remember Elon saying that "everyone pays the same price" and that they don't do special discounts for friends and family, and that even he pays full price for the cars. It seemed like a formal policy and it was refreshingly clear and upfront.

I think that's where a lot of this dismay comes from. That, and we're all shellshocked by eternal TSLA SP volatility and hate seeing it spread in to their product pricing.

My son-in-law's brother was a high ranking finance executive at Tesla for 6 years, and he had to pay the exact same prices as me, Joeschmoe, AFAIK, everyone does pay the same price, on the same day. Tomorrow is another day.
 
Market-moment pricing is ok for groceries and little widgets.

But it's awkward for major purchases, when more financial planning is needed and financial arrangements need to be made.

It would be OK if this were a +/- $hundreds thing, folks could just round up to nearest thousand. But with swings of several thousand on any given day.. makes it rough, and maybe enough to change the competitive equations around. Could convince someone they're better off with a Bolt or Kona electric - competitively speaking.. bang for the buck.

Tesla has to realize some serious competition is now on the floor.
 
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Market-moment pricing is ok for groceries and little widgets.

But it's awkward for major purchases, when more financial planning is needed and financial arrangements need to be made.

It would be OK if this were a +/- $hundreds thing, folks could just round up to nearest thousand. But with swings of several thousand on any given day.. makes it rough, and maybe enough to change the competitive equations around. Could convince someone they're better off with a Bolt or Kona electric - competitively speaking.. bang for the buck.

Tesla has to realize some serious competition is now on the floor.
As much as I dislike Tesla’s recent actions, there isn’t any competition. The only competition is ICE cars. Other EVs are poop on arrival
 
Frankly all vehicles lose substantial value the moment they are titled, the very rare exceptions have not lasted long. Tesla vehicles are not exceptions, only the early models had modest depreciation or even appreciation. Once any builder enters volume production the scarcity value diminishes very rapidly.
It's not about scarcity. It's technology, which retains value. Even 6-8 years old MS are still super advanced compared to the rest of the market.

All those pricing oscillations will not mean much so long as 'new' is more costly than 'used'.
Good observation, wrong conclusion. When 'new' discounts, all owners of the 'used' ones take a hit.
I already pictured a real situation which leads into substantial direct losses, so depends on timing and luck.

Some executive decisions could benefit of gradual 3-month roll-out.
 
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Because it sucks when you buy a new car with AP and then AP price drops by $1000 a few days after the return period and you haven't even gotten to use it beyond testing it out a few times. And if that's not bad enough, while you were waiting for delivery, the price went down by 6% then up by 3% and after the $1000 price drop of AP, we're hearing about a $3000 price increase on FSD.

It's good to do what is needed to keep Tesla up and running, but customers are constantly feeling like they have been screwed. Sometimes it works out in your favor but I suspect it hasn't for most.
So when should they ever change their prices? After a month when nobody bought anything?
 
All I know is when I go to a dealer the guy who bought a similar car there 5 minutes before I did and the guy who bought one 5 minutes after all have paid different price than I did. And I don't even know what everyone has paid. I guess what you don't know will not bother you.
 
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As a buyer, you can be accommodating or you can be pissed at the bipolar pricing decisions.

But unfortunately, the few companies that dictate leasing residuals are going to punish Tesla for these moves. Residuals will probably reflect the lower (end of quarter) transaction prices and that will increase lease cost and ultimately make Tesla a more expensive car for the consumer.

Very short sighted on Elon and co side and makes me wonder what crisis has justified these dramatic changes every 3 days. They certainly don’t suffer from choice supportive bias!

Read this article to get your clue.
This Is the Number 1 Sign of High Intelligence, According to Jeff Bezos

Bezos has "observed that the smartest people are constantly revising their understanding, reconsidering a problem they thought they'd already solved. They're open to new points of view, new information, new ideas, contradictions, and challenges to their own way of thinking,"

And ""Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.""
 
Yes, I hate normal car purchasing. Which is why the no-haggle, no middle-man-dealer approach by Tesla was refreshing. Only, we're finding out it's not so different in the end.

These don't seem like "random price changes" to me. The changes are announced, public, and available to anyone - nationwide. A couple of people may have gotten some special deal because of some unique circumstances. But the fact that someone got a free $600 charger does not ruin my day anymore than the fact that I was not borne as Warren Buffet's son.

Half of why I bought my Tesla was that I visited a dealer and looked at a Chevy Bolt. After 2 hours, the salesman still couldn't tell me the price without "meeting with his manager". Late for my Tesla test-drive, I left and asked him to email me price. He never did. He only called a dozen times wanting to sell me the car.

NEVER AGAIN! I will never participate in that dealer negotiation farce again. Life is too short. Besides, once I bought my Tesla primarily for its straight-forward pricing and zero-net charging from my solar panels, I discovered that it was by far the most responsive (acceleration, steering, AND braking) car that I had ever driven. And it is by far the safest. No more dealer-sold gasoline-explosion cars for me.
 
So when should they ever change their prices? After a month when nobody bought anything?

You can give a month notice, so anyone buying can take advantage of it by waiting or buying early if need be. Tesla already does this to some degree with price hikes, but they don't do it for price drops.

Or you can scale it with a prorated refund based on how many days ago you purchased.

I wouldn't advocate for any changes beyond a 30 day period, as you have to adapt to market conditions and competition.
 
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You left out a bit... "A foolish consistency ...", from Emerson.

Thanks you . I qouted from that article. Here is the full qoute I googled. It has exactly the same narrative as my post and the article linked. A great mind is confident enough to make constant changes. A dumb person can and will consistently be wrong.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
 
Sorry guys, reconsidering strategy is great. Flip flopping MAJOR decisions every 3 days isn’t demonstrating high IQ, it’s demonstrating zero planning.

They literally reversed store closure decisions when it was pointed out to them that the lease contracts were going to prevent the expected cost savings. That’s the kind of thing that only happens when a leader has driven out all dissent and is now surrounded by sycophants.

You can paint that as ‘new information’...new to them. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry guys, reconsidering strategy is great. Flip flopping MAJOR decisions every 3 days isn’t demonstrating high IQ, it’s demonstrating zero planning.

They literally reversed store closure decisions when it was pointed out to them that the lease contracts were going to prevent the expected cost savings. That’s the kind of thing that only happens when a leader has driven out all dissent and is now surrounded by sycophants.

You can paint that as ‘new information’...new to them. :rolleyes:

You need to try absorbe what those real smart people say. Those people do things different than you and I. Things change and new info are coming real fast. Dumb people will just stay put but smart people will react to them. Those few smartest people are able to make new decisions even faster than just smart people. Like the best auto traction control system that will take inputs and feedback to fast calculate necessary reactions in miliseconds. Not so great systems will be slow in response. These might work some of times but other times the car will just slide off the cliff.

As for store closing Elon likely got feedback especially from store people that allowed him to make new plans. He wouldn't be able to discuss it with everyone before making the store closure annoucement.
 
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I'm going to pile in on this thread here - even though @jbcarioca's initial post in this thread said much the same albeit more thoroughly - AND step on some TMC rules about double posting, because
  • (1) I likewise was getting fed up at the plethora of pricing complaints so put this in the middle of the most current one; and
  • (2) I think it's appropriate to hammer on this subject in as many slightly different ways as possible; and
  • (3) I'd posted the following an hour earlier and in typical fashion am clamoring for just a leetle credit
So this is what I had written earlier Sunday morning. The "Costco" reference was in response to one poster who suggested Tesla should abide by the price-change guarantee that retailer provides:

FOR ANYONE CONTEMPLATING PURCHASING A TESLA WHO READS THIS THREAD

  • Tesla shows on its website what its current prices and bundled packages are at any particular time
  • You have the full choice of deciding to take advantage of that offer, or deciding to wait to see if the prices and packages will differ tomorrow, next week and so forth
  • You DO KNOW that everyone purchasing "now" will be paying that price shown
  • You also should be aware that were you to go to a traditional dealership, you have absolutely zero idea how good or bad a price you will be paying, nor what the previous or subsequent customer has paid or will pay. NO IDEA AT ALL. NEVER.
  • Costco's 30-day (not 60-day) "match the price" policy is a superb marketing tactic; one of which I have taken advantage several times. It is close to unique in the world - I, for one, know of no merchant who copies it. I would not expect Tesla to match that policy.
I hope this puts full stop to the complaints generated on this thread, and on a fair number of effectively identical ones that have occurred in the past. I also hope for Peace, Love and General Happiness throughout the world. Each hope has the same probability of occurring.
 
... I also hope for Peace, Love and General Happiness throughout the world. Each hope has the same probability of occurring.
I share your sentiments completely. At least we can hope realistically for "Peace, Love and General Happiness" in our own householders, if not at any broader scale. Still, almost all Tesla owners I have met feel peaceful with their vehicle choice, most seem to approach Love for their Tesla(s) [despite such sentiments being a trifle odd in reference to an inanimate object] and almost all seem to be generally happy with their choice(s).

Certainly i have those emotions in reference to my Teslas. As with all object fo my affection they are not perfect. It behooves us to consider the less than perfect aspects of 'Teslaphilia'. It does not behoove us to be superficial in our thinking or expression.

Finally we should approach our topics with integrity.

in·teg·ri·ty
/inˈteɡrədē/
noun
  1. 1.
    the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
    "he is known to be a man of integrity"
    synonyms: honesty, uprightness, probity, rectitude, honor, honorableness, upstandingness, good character, principle(s), ethics, morals, righteousness, morality, nobility, high-mindedness, right-mindedness, noble-mindedness, virtue, decency, fairness, scrupulousness, sincerity, truthfulness, trustworthiness
    "I never doubted his integrity"
  2. 2.
    the state of being whole and undivided.
    "upholding territorial integrity and national sovereignty"
    synonyms: unity, unification, wholeness, coherence, cohesion, undividedness, togetherness, solidarity, coalition
    "internal racial unrest threatened the integrity of the federation"
It is useful to note that superficiality is not part of integrity.

I apologize for this outburst. It happens because I, too, am becoming irritated with posters who fail to do even minimal homework. We all make mistakes, but hopefully we should learn from them rather than repeating them.

Finally, nothing I am saying here detracts from my own dissatisfactions with periodic major deficiencies in delivery processes, service and repair. Those all need to have the same attention from Tesla as do the incredible design and manufacturing.
 
You also should be aware that were you to go to a traditional dealership, you have absolutely zero idea how good or bad a price you will be paying, nor what the previous or subsequent customer has paid or will pay. NO IDEA AT ALL. NEVER.

I’m going to assume you’re being honest and unaware that this statement is patently false. In the US, it’s a rather simple process to understand how a given vehicle is selling, and what level of discount can be negotiated. Many people hate the negotiation process, but it comes at the END of the research that establishes what is the current market price for a give make and model. Motivated bargain shoppers can access production figures, sales figures, and data about inventory levels for the model. They can even target specific vehicles that have been sitting around for a long time, and end of month sales targets they know the dealership is incentivized to hit. It’s all a matter of how much effort the buyer is willing to make, and how sensitive they are to getting a good deal. I have friends that despise this process enough to just pay full price to avoid it, and other friends that are only happy with their purchase if they wring every penny out of the dealership.

I think the main issue in the case of Tesla, is that people are starting to see that the same basic techniques apply. For many years, Tesla was actually production constrained. You only need to observe Tesla’s recent machinations to know those days or over. How interested is Tesla in a given sale IS related to production levels, inventories, and demand. People are accurately sensing that demand has fallen, and a discounted buying opportunity exists. Like it or not, if you want to save money on a Tesla purchase, history says you would be a fool to buy in the first or second month of the quarter, and you can probably get a screaming deal on an inventory unit in the last week of the quarter. I know many here wish it wasn’t true. I know Elon hasn’t been forthcoming about it. But, unless you are new here or purposely avoid the order/delivery forums you have seen the cycle repeat since late 2017.

Thus, it’s completely rational for potential buyers on this forum to anticipate that April prices for vehicles, Autopilot, etc are likely to drop. If FSD is suddenly revealed it could cause demand to exceed supply again. But after what? 30 months? Does it seem more likely that desperate people are trying to boost low demand with more claims about someday? Make your own decisions.
 
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Guid Gawd mon. Yes, I was being and am being honest and I also am aware that, unlike apparently you, a very high fraction of the work occurring time spent in auto dealers' salesrooms is in convincing the customer that he or she is getting the bestest deal ever. To the extent you believe otherwise is a demonstration of your own innocence.
I will concur with you that it is possible to do the legwork necessary for the purchaser to become more knowledgeable prior to negotiating, but even in this world of the internet it is the auto dealership that holds the cards...is the croupier...owns the casino. Transparency does not exist. There is no level playing field.

Looking at the perturbations Tesla has made both with the prices of its products, the ways it markets - including the highly-debated "store closings" - and the choices it makes available, it has occurred to me that the company may be doing something quite different from what most posters write (I believe all but I may have missed some commentators, in that these threads occur across the spectrum of the TMC world).

I see these actions as Tesla testing the SS/DD curve. This is NO different from what BMW, Ford, Kia &c do..... it is just that in Tesla's case, it is far more (100%) transparent. The traditional automakers & their dealers offer incentives, holiday sales, rebates, freebie add-ons, financing gimmicks - all of these are ways these two arms of the auto sales world have used to gain maximum economic rent. It is a very opaque process and thus is much less open to producing the ire that we see inflicted upon Tesla. One of the most dynamic reasons these shenanigans have been so effective for so long is because of one ineluctable feature of the human condition: we all want to believe that we are winning. In the case of the auto transaction, it is in getting a good deal. Pandering to that is the effective auto salesperson's strongest card.
 
I’m going to assume you’re being honest and unaware that this statement is patently false. In the US, it’s a rather simple process to understand how a given vehicle is selling, and what level of discount can be negotiated. Many people hate the negotiation process, but it comes at the END of the research that establishes what is the current market price for a give make and model. Motivated bargain shoppers can access production figures, sales figures, and data about inventory levels for the model... Make your own decisions.
Except for your first sentence the I mostly agree with you, but; While an exceedingly well informed and diligent person can pretty much identify how US pricing will develop for a given model, nobody can do so with any consistency because the total information is very, very rarely available to even the best informed people.

With the complexity of incentives at each step from ordering, floor planning, option choices, dealer adds and financing choices at every step it is literally impossible for anybody to know with any precision what any individual deal might be. Thus Audie is 100% correct. Your assertion is valid to a certain extent, in that you're less likely to be 'ripped off' as your knowledge increases.

A couple of decades spent in periodic design of vehicle distribution product design has convinced me that nobody, not even dealer principals, actually understand the impact of all the features that effect changes in effective pricing or vehicle resale values. In general, sure. Specifically, no chance!! The only even close analogies are in industries like hotels and airlines, with Amazon leading the pack in merchandising and services. To think any vehicle distribution process is actually transparent to consumers is folly.

My last point. The 'price guarantee' business is genuinely one of the cleverest tricks available in retailing. I led a team that evaluated that kind of system for a retailer everyone on this forum probably knows. As it happens fewer than .03% of buyers who could use such as system to their benefit actually do so. However, confidence fo price matching rises substantially. Thus, when an Audie shows up they lose money. There are very few Audies! The other major line of defense is to ensure that the SKU from manufacturers is specific to the retailer. Matching is pretty near impossible if the model number changes. One would not think vehicle manufacturers do that but they frequently have regional and even dealer-specific models, which usually differ in some inconsequential way, but often actually carry vin identification. When such things happen effective comparisons become a muddle.

Many of us do not know how good we have it as customers of Tesla.
 
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Tesla is just adjusting price to balance supply and demand. Everybody does that you just don't know about it. Other companies are doing it behind the dealership system. No one knows how much a car costs to the dealer or how much the other guy has paid for one. There is nothing wrong with that either. A business is a business. If people don't buy products because of that they will change (but people do). Tesla's is the most transparent one we should appreciate what we have.

My last point. The 'price guarantee' business is genuinely one of the cleverest tricks available in retailing. I led a team that evaluated that kind of system for a retailer everyone on this forum probably knows. As it happens fewer than .03% of buyers who could use such as system to their benefit actually do so. However, confidence fo price matching rises substantially. Thus, when an Audie shows up they lose money. There are very few Audies! The other major line of defense is to ensure that the SKU from manufacturers is specific to the retailer. Matching is pretty near impossible if the model number changes. One would not think vehicle manufacturers do that but they frequently have regional and even dealer-specific models, which usually differ in some inconsequential way, but often actually carry vin identification. When such things happen effective comparisons become a muddle.

Many of us do not know how good we have it as customers of Tesla.

Yes and the no question asked return policy. You don't know how many extra sales were made because people don't feel there is a risk of buying one.
 
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