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Wildly inaccurate range on long trips

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What was your wh/m during the trip? That is the key factor. To get the EPA rated range you need to be averaging around 300 wh/m if I recall correctly for the S. You can see the rated number to aim for on the energy page: it is the dotted line labeled “rated”.

Other things that are factors: temperature, tire size (the 21” have much worse efficiency), the rain would have been a pretty big hit, jackrabbit starts off of lights (many new Tesla owners are heavy on the pedal), etc.


My guess based on your location is this is all weather related. In the summer you will do much better and in the winter worse. Our P85D is very seasonal and gets its worse efficiency this time of year even on dry roads. Always use the navigation on longer trips until you get a feel for it, and even then we still use the navigation because it is so much more accurate.


Different performance in different seasons makes sense. Will the car adjust automatically based on recent driving? Will it learn? For example, my trip calculator was dead on this time, will it know in the summer to extend the range based on recent summer driving stats?
 
Different performance in different seasons makes sense. Will the car adjust automatically based on recent driving? Will it learn? For example, my trip calculator was dead on this time, will it know in the summer to extend the range based on recent summer driving stats?
Yes, it's always dead on. Doesn't matter the season. Useful for knowing how much to supercharge too.
 
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Second, there were a ton of comments about the range indicator being the EPA number. Many of you noted ICE's also have unrealistic EPA's. I have to disagree with this statement because my old ICE based my "range" on actual recent results to calculate my range. If an ICE used the EPA x gallons remaining, I would agree with you guys. Tesla should change their method of projecting range if we all know it's unrealistic.​

Tesla does both, the charge level display shows the EPA rated range and the energy app shows the estimate based on current or recent past usage. Most of us old timers switch our battery level meter to percentage and use the trip planner and energy app to determine actual mileage.
 
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I’ve had my Model S for a few months and just took it on a couple trips outside the area I live in for the first time over the holidays. This meant using superchrgers for the first time. One trip was about 400 miles round trip, the other was 600.

I’m shocked by the inaccuracy of the “tank level” miles remaining. I got FAR LESS range than it showed. I have a 75D with a 240 max range when charged to 100%. I was luckyto get 150 miles total. What gives?

Here’s an example. On the last leg of my trip last night, I stopped at a supercharger and charged to 200 miles exactly. I was exactly 100 miles from home. When I got home, I had 60 mile reminding. A loss of 40%!!!

During this time I set the cruise on exactly 70mph the whole way. Turned the display down, ambient lights off, no radio, no climate control, no heated seats, etc. The only wildcard here is that it was raining.

I assume 70mph is a strain but I didn’t expect it to cost me 40%. That means the real max range of my car is only 144 miles!!! That’s absurd.

One other weird note: The trip planner on the navigation seemed dead on. It projected the batter at 25% for the end of my trip right after it charged to 200 miles. 25% of my max 240 range is 60 miles...exactly where it ended.

So why is there such a discrepancy in the Nav planner and range icon?

Hopefully I’ll learn more as I take more trips but I have to say I’m highly disappointed in the outcome of these two and the overall range of my car.

If anyone has advice, I’d be happy to take it.

Thanks,

The core issue is that the miles shown on the main display are "EPA miles", and you can achieve that, or something close to it, in certain conditions. Rain, cold and high speed are outside those conditions.

Best to set that as a percentage instead of distance.

What counts on a trip is the expected arrival percentage on the Navigator, and even that won't be really reliable until after 30 miles, or so, into the trip.
 
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I still think it's egregious that I should expect that car will only get 150-200 miles AT BEST on a charge with an advertised range of 240 miles under unattainable or unrealistic driving conditions.
Again, this isn't true. You can get 240 miles on a charge in attainable and realistic driving conditions. But those conditions are rare. If it gets hotter/colder, you lose range. If it rains, you lose range. If you don't preheat the battery, you lose range. If you speed, you lose range. etc. etc. etc.

Here's an example (70D), I was driving maybe 75mph(?) the whole time. 206 miles driven, with 9% left. If I slowed down a little, I could have gotten the full 240 miles of range.


20150904_231417.jpg
 
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I love the forum, you guys are the best! I appreciate the helpful feedback to a newbie who's still learning. You've all been so constructive.

I've learned a couple of things and have a couple thoughts;

First, looks like the rain was a big factor. It makes sense because I lost about 40% range on this trip but only about 20% on the one before in good weather.

Second, there were a ton of comments about the range indicator being the EPA number. Many of you noted ICE's also have unrealistic EPA's. I have to disagree with this statement because my old ICE based my "range" on actual recent results to calculate my range. If an ICE used the EPA x gallons remaining, I would agree with you guys. Tesla should change their method of projecting range if we all know it's unrealistic.​

Many of you referenced paying more attention to my energy app. I think I need to take that good advice and get to know it better.

Nearly every comment focused on things that degrade mileage. Understandable. There were no comments refuting my assumption that I need to assume a lesser range going forward. I still think it's egregious that I should expect that car will only get 150-200 miles AT BEST on a charge with an advertised range of 240 miles under unattainable or unrealistic driving conditions.

I've been bragging about my car to everyone I know, I would be embarrassed to tell anyone I only get 150 miles of range. No wonder range anxiety is such a popularly discussed topic. I get it now.

Yes, you need to assume that your real range is little more than 150 miles. The cars display of range will only torture you. Switch it to display battery SOC % and you will be happier. Also, you will have a number that you can actually use (multiply the SOC % times 2 and you have a range estimate closer to reality). Also: Use your GPS/navigator for any trip that makes range an issue. The GPS display of charge percent remaining at the end of the trip is pretty close to reality.
This is the one thing about my Tesla that pisses me off.
 
Again, this isn't true. You can get 240 miles on a charge in attainable and realistic driving conditions. But those conditions are rare. If it gets hotter/colder, you lose range. If it rains, you lose range. If you don't preheat the battery, you lose range. If you speed, you lose range. etc. etc. etc.

Here's an example (70D), I was driving maybe 75mph(?) the whole time. 206 miles driven, with 9% left. If I slowed down a little, I could have gotten the full 240 miles of range.


View attachment 494481
Max: Is yours a single motor car? That may account for your admirably low wh/mile. Those of us with Dual motor cars have much more trouble getting anywhere near the displayed range. The range from my 90D is little more (very little more) than what you are getting from your 70. So I think that your "this isn't true" assertion does not apply to most of us.
 
To improve efficiency:
  • “Chill” mode acceleration.
  • Ensure air suspension set to automatically go to Low above 50 mph.
  • Set tire pressure to about 48 psi cold. Our S100D gets very even wear at that pressure and 35,000 miles before tire replacement.
  • Use Adaptive Cruise Control/Autopilot with 2 or 3 car length following distance.
  • Minimize cabin temp setting when stretching range. Seat warmer & steering wheel warmer are more energy-efficient.
If you have heat on, slightly higher speed optimizes range. Less time per mile means less juice going to the heater per mile.

Our optimal summer speed is about 72 mph. 75 seems better when heat is on.

I keep battery display on %, Energy graph open during road trips.

We live just west of Philadelphia. My wife has learned that if, when we’re leaving NYC, Nav predicts 6% charge on arrival - then we’ll likely have 14% or more at the end. Even if I start bumping up the speed.

Give yourself a few road trips to find your groove. As others said, use the Energy graph to tune your driving and control settings.

Dual motors increase range for Model S, reduce it for 3.
 
Again, this isn't true. You can get 240 miles on a charge in attainable and realistic driving conditions. But those conditions are rare. If it gets hotter/colder, you lose range. If it rains, you lose range. If you don't preheat the battery, you lose range. If you speed, you lose range. etc. etc. etc.

Here's an example (70D), I was driving maybe 75mph(?) the whole time. 206 miles driven, with 9% left. If I slowed down a little, I could have gotten the full 240 miles of range.
Yes, not that hard. 50% highway 50% city.
Jul_5_2019.jpg
 
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Max: Is yours a single motor car? That may account for your admirably low wh/mile. Those of us with Dual motor cars have much more trouble getting anywhere near the displayed range. The range from my 90D is little more (very little more) than what you are getting from your 70. So I think that your "this isn't true" assertion does not apply to most of us.
70D. Dual Motor. Same car as the OP.

Can I get rated range all 4 seasons? No. Can I get rated range driving in the city? No. But, on the highway, with proper weather, and even with speeding, yes, it's possible - in attainable and realistic driving conditions.

I can't compare the 70D to the 90D (different battery chemistry, no clue how they do rated miles calculations, etc.).
 
I do turn on the HVAC in the car from my app while plugged in prior to my trip. Are you referring to something different than that?
The other action is to set the charging so that it ends at about the time you start to drive. That warms the battery better than the heater (although doing both is best, and use HI for the heater when pre-warming).
 
To improve efficiency:
  • “Chill” mode acceleration.
  • Ensure air suspension set to automatically go to Low above 50 mph.
  • Set tire pressure to about 48 psi cold. Our S100D gets very even wear at that pressure and 35,000 miles before tire replacement.
  • Use Adaptive Cruise Control/Autopilot with 2 or 3 car length following distance.
  • Minimize cabin temp setting when stretching range. Seat warmer & steering wheel warmer are more energy-efficient.
If you have heat on, slightly higher speed optimizes range. Less time per mile means less juice going to the heater per mile.

Our optimal summer speed is about 72 mph. 75 seems better when heat is on.

I keep battery display on %, Energy graph open during road trips.

We live just west of Philadelphia. My wife has learned that if, when we’re leaving NYC, Nav predicts 6% charge on arrival - then we’ll likely have 14% or more at the end. Even if I start bumping up the speed.

Give yourself a few road trips to find your groove. As others said, use the Energy graph to tune your driving and control settings.

Dual motors increase range for Model S, reduce it for 3.

Nick; Good tips to increase range. Most are well known. Most have a small effect. None of them are related to the problem of Tesla overselling range predictions, and batteries with reduced capacity.
The early Model S cars with one motor had lower wh/mile energy consumption rates compared to the dual motor Model S cars that followed. In this past year (2019), Tesla has changed one of the motors in the Model S to the permanent magnet type. This has improved the overall efficiency of the Model S. That is, the newest two-motor Model S is more efficient than the older two-motor Model S.
It is distinctly UNtrue that: "Dual motors increase range for Model S ..."
 
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Nick; Good tips to increase range. Most are well known. Most have a small effect. None of them are related to the problem of Tesla overselling range predictions, and batteries with reduced capacity.
The early Model S cars with one motor had lower wh/mile energy consumption rates compared to the dual motor Model S cars that followed. In this past year (2019), Tesla has changed one of the motors in the Model S to the permanent magnet type. This has improved the overall efficiency of the Model S. That is, the newest two-motor Model S is more efficient than the older two-motor Model S.
It is distinctly UNtrue that: "Dual motors increase range for Model S ..."
It is distinctly TRUE that my dual motor S has longer range than my single motor S. Better regen and torque sleep.
 
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Nick; Good tips to increase range. Most are well known. Most have a small effect ...

That is, the newest two-motor Model S is more efficient than the older two-motor Model S.
It is distinctly UNtrue that: "Dual motors increase range for Model S ..."
I agree that Tesla rated range is rarely achieved in real-world driving. Still, the numbers provide a useful benchmark for comparison. If one Tesla has higher rated range than another, then there’s likely a proportional difference in real-world range.

Still, I disagree on both points quoted above. Like many on this forum, I am obsessive-compulsive with a strong engineering/ technology background.

Each range suggestion provides meaningful improvement. I occasionally try a road trip omitting one of the tactics above. Wh/mile is higher than I expect. After 100 miles, when I restore the setting, Wh/mile goes down.

When I was Model S shopping in late 2017, range was top criteria, after sunroof, wife-requested color and no gas tank (standard on every Tesla). Tesla’s website showed better range for:
  • 100 KWh battery than 75 KWh
  • Dual-motor than RWD
  • 100D than P100D. Though P100D still had better rated range than 100 with RWD.
  • Smart Air Suspension description than standard suspension.
In Model 3, LR RWD (no longer on menu) had top range. Then LR AWD. This may have confused the picture.

I suspect Model S AWD range advantage stems from “overdrive” ratio gearing on front motor. That would support more efficient operation at typical cruise speed. Improved acceleration vs. RWD is a collateral benefit.

Our 2017 S100D beats 2018 LR P3D- Wh/mile above about 72 mph, despite Model 3’s inherently better efficiency. I chalk that up to less drag from lowered suspension and better front motor gearing.
 
When I was Model S shopping in late 2017, range was top criteria, after sunroof, wife-requested color and no gas tank (standard on every Tesla). Tesla’s website showed better range for:
  • 100 KWh battery than 75 KWh
  • Dual-motor than RWD
  • 100D than P100D. Though P100D still had better rated range than 100 with RWD.
  • Smart Air Suspension description than standard suspension.

I don't believe there was ever a Model S 100 that was only rear-wheel drive.
 
I’ve had my Model S for a few months and just took it on a couple trips outside the area I live in for the first time over the holidays. This meant using superchrgers for the first time. One trip was about 400 miles round trip, the other was 600.

I’m shocked by the inaccuracy of the “tank level” miles remaining. I got FAR LESS range than it showed. I have a 75D with a 240 max range when charged to 100%. I was luckyto get 150 miles total. What gives?

Here’s an example. On the last leg of my trip last night, I stopped at a supercharger and charged to 200 miles exactly. I was exactly 100 miles from home. When I got home, I had 60 mile reminding. A loss of 40%!!!

During this time I set the cruise on exactly 70mph the whole way. Turned the display down, ambient lights off, no radio, no climate control, no heated seats, etc. The only wildcard here is that it was raining.

I assume 70mph is a strain but I didn’t expect it to cost me 40%. That means the real max range of my car is only 144 miles!!! That’s absurd.

One other weird note: The trip planner on the navigation seemed dead on. It projected the batter at 25% for the end of my trip right after it charged to 200 miles. 25% of my max 240 range is 60 miles...exactly where it ended.

So why is there such a discrepancy in the Nav planner and range icon?

Hopefully I’ll learn more as I take more trips but I have to say I’m highly disappointed in the outcome of these two and the overall range of my car.

If anyone has advice, I’d be happy to take it.

Thanks,

you look like you're into numbers. get teslafi or a similar service and oogle at the numbers to your hearts content!
 
I don't believe there was ever a Model S 100 that was only rear-wheel drive.
Pretty sure that was available. In early 2017, nearly everything was a separate option:
- Ultra Hi-Fi sound
- Sub-Zero package
- Premium interior
- Smart Air Suspension
- Dual Motors

Objective was probably to get Model S entry price as low as possible.

By 2018, with less-expensive 3 in production, S options all became standard, sun-roof was discontinued.
 
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Pretty sure that was available. In early 2017, nearly everything was a separate option:
- Ultra Hi-Fi sound
- Sub-Zero package
- Premium interior
- Smart Air Suspension
- Dual Motors

Objective was probably to get Model S entry price as low as possible.

By 2018, with less-expensive 3 in production, S options all became standard, sun-roof was discontinued.

I purchased a 100D in April of 2017. Around that time, I believe there was only rear-wheel drive available on the 60 and the 75, the former being discontinued entirely around that time (both RWD and AWD). Nothing in the Wikipedia article about Model S variants indicates there was ever a "100" model (although I didn't know there was a RWD 90 model at one point).

There was this guy....

TMC Member Upgrades Model S: 'Only RWD Tesla With a 100 kWh Pack' - Tesla Motors Club

But if you have some evidence to indicate there was ever a RWD 100 model produced by Tesla, I'd like to see it.