Will a long test drive reveal a tendency to phantom braking?

[guardyourheart]

I have an order on a MYLR, which I'm primarily buying for AP to use on my 50 mile highway commute, After placing the order, I learned about phantom braking issues with radarless Tesla Vision and have researched many PB threads here. Trying to figure out whether to cut my losses and cancel.

If I rented a Model Y with Tesla Vision for a few days, would I be likely to pick up a tendency for PB on my commute? Or is PB random and variable enough (shadows, traffic, etc.) that this wouldn't be a helpful test? For those with camera-only AP, has PB improved recently?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Depends a lot on the type of Highway.

If its an undivided highway you'll likely get PB events fairly often within a 50 mile commute.

If its a divided highway you'll need probably 200-400 miles to really assess the PB occurrence rate.

 

[LoudMusic]

I'm going out on a limb and saying if autopilot is your make or brake reason for buying a Tesla, don't buy a Tesla.

Buy a Tesla because 50 miles (100 round trip?) is freaking ideal for an EV and the best EV available right now is anything Tesla makes. If autopilot is reasonable in your area that's a bonus.

Other than commuting what would you use this vehicle for?

 

[guardyourheart]

I'm going out on a limb and saying if autopilot is your make or brake reason for buying a Tesla, don't buy a Tesla.

Buy a Tesla because 50 miles (100 round trip?) is freaking ideal for an EV and the best EV available right now is anything Tesla makes. If autopilot is reasonable in your area that's a bonus.

Other than commuting what would you use this vehicle for?

The vehicle would be 80% commuting, the rest shuttling kids to their activities. We have an ICE van for longer trips.

Ever since our family moved 1 hour from my work (I can't telework or easily change jobs in my field of work), the commute has significantly contributed to my exhaustion and mentally checking out while at home with the kids. When I rented a 2019 radar+vision M3, AP was a great help in saving my energy. Yeah, the tech is super cool, but my primary reason is AP. If there was a reliable ICE or hybrid car with level 2 semi-autonomous driving, I'd buy it. I tried comma.ai, Ford BlueCruise, and the other usual suspects, and radar+vision Tesla was the best.

Why do you say I should skip the Tesla if AP is the primary reason for buying? Is AP not reliable enough?

 

[OncomingStorm]

I have an order on a MYLR, which I'm primarily buying for AP to use on my 50 mile highway commute, After placing the order, I learned about phantom braking issues with radarless Tesla Vision and have researched many PB threads here. Trying to figure out whether to cut my losses and cancel.

If I rented a Model Y with Tesla Vision for a few days, would I be likely to pick up a tendency for PB on my commute? Or is PB random and variable enough (shadows, traffic, etc.) that this wouldn't be a helpful test? For those with camera-only AP, has PB improved recently?

i'd go for it, there are a lot of tesla/AP haters on here that will stear you wrong lol, best to have first person experience. FWIW i also bought my tesla primarly for AP (i hate long drives) and i could not be happier with it, i drive a fair amount and probably 80% on AP, yes you'll get a random braking event but its not very common, however there are also roads and conditions where it doesn't perform ideally, so it does depend a bit on what you want to do with it, if that makes sence. I'd go for the rental if you've never used it and are concerned and drive it where you would normally drive, can't hurt either way and you'll know better what your getting into (it does take a min to adjust to driving a tesla, fair warning lol, nothing major but a lot of little differences that can be a little daunting at first). my guess is you'll love it unless you happen to be in the minority that dont for whatever reason.

 

[Unclepaul]

No matter what phantom braking you notice on a test ride, it might easily change with the next OTA update. Tesla tend to get better over time with software updates.

As you learn to drive on Autopilot, you will become aware of where it performs best. Sometimes it glitches on the same place. You will learn to come off autopilot before arriving where phantom braking has happened before. A new FSD large update is shortly going to drop. It could make a big difference.

 

[Yelobird]

i'd go for it, there are a lot of tesla/AP haters on here that will stear you wrong lol, best to have first person experience. FWIW i also bought my tesla primarly for AP (i hate long drives) and i could not be happier with it, i drive a fair amount and probably 80% on AP, yes you'll get a random braking event but its not very common, however there are also roads and conditions where it doesn't perform ideally, so it does depend a bit on what you want to do with it, if that makes sence. I'd go for the rental if you've never used it and are concerned and drive it where you would normally drive, can't hurt either way and you'll know better what your getting into (it does take a min to adjust to driving a tesla, fair warning lol, nothing major but a lot of little differences that can be a little daunting at first). my guess is you'll love it unless you happen to be in the minority that dont for whatever reason.

Agreed. Use AP every day and have no issues. A few random cars jumping out may slow it down 2-3 MPH but far from any of the fears pitched by a few.

 

[LoudMusic]

The vehicle would be 80% commuting, the rest shuttling kids to their activities. We have an ICE van for longer trips.

Ever since our family moved 1 hour from my work (I can't telework or easily change jobs in my field of work), the commute has significantly contributed to my exhaustion and mentally checking out while at home with the kids. When I rented a 2019 radar+vision M3, AP was a great help in saving my energy. Yeah, the tech is super cool, but my primary reason is AP. If there was a reliable ICE or hybrid car with level 2 semi-autonomous driving, I'd buy it. I tried comma.ai, Ford BlueCruise, and the other usual suspects, and radar+vision Tesla was the best.

Why do you say I should skip the Tesla if AP is the primary reason for buying? Is AP not reliable enough?

I think that you would be frustrated with the AP experience long term. I'd love to be wrong, but I think that will be the case. When I buy something because of a specific feature, that feature better be 100% bulletproof. I don't think AP is there.

But I think if you focus on the other positives of an EV, or specifically a Tesla, and can charge the vehicle at home at 7kw+, it would be an amazing commuting vehicle for you. If AP is "handy most of the time" and has minimal negative experiences then that's just happy extra. But in my 2020 Model Y with radar, it has enough AP false positives that I'm annoyed just about every day that I use it.

 

[DrChaos]

I have an order on a MYLR, which I'm primarily buying for AP to use on my 50 mile highway commute, After placing the order, I learned about phantom braking issues with radarless Tesla Vision and have researched many PB threads here. Trying to figure out whether to cut my losses and cancel.

If I rented a Model Y with Tesla Vision for a few days, would I be likely to pick up a tendency for PB on my commute? Or is PB random and variable enough (shadows, traffic, etc.) that this wouldn't be a helpful test? For those with camera-only AP, has PB improved recently?

A highway with an elevation undulation seems to trigger it, when there isn't a consistent vanishing point from the point of view of the camera, i.e. if there is a 'dip' in front of the path which is temporarily invisible and not populated with cars.

There may be other conditions but that one seems to be a higher probability occurrence.

More divided highway, and more cars, i.e. more like Los Angeles (where Elon used to commute) or Bay Area, the better it works.

 

[sleepydoc]

unfortunately, there's a large degree of phantom braking variability, both in road environments as well as between individual cars. As @Unclepaul said, software updates can change it as well.

IME, PB is less of an issue on divided highways but I've had it occur everywhere. Most of the episodes are mild - random 5 MPH slowdowns shortly followed by accelerations. Some are much more significant. I haven't had any false AEB(emergency braking) activations on divided highways but they've definitely occurred on other roads.

In general the PB is not dangerous, other than the disruptions it causes to the traffic around you. The bigger problem for me is the annoyance and uncertainty. Every 10-15 minutes I find myself suddenly swaying forward as the car slows down, then swaying backwards as it accelerates again (that's the annoying part.) Worse than that is the feeling like I can't trust it - I never know if/when it's going to slow down 20 MPH. Those cases are much less common but they occur enough that you're always worried about them.

Still, I do find driving on AP more relaxing than driving without it and I definitely missed it when I drove out 2011 odyssey that only has 'dumb' cruise.

 

[JohnB007]

I've had the MYLR for few days now, about 1000km. I'm still on the original(old) software. Most of the road I drive are 4-lane roads but I do have some of 2-lane roads including highways.

I guess I'm used to a 6-year old X3 adaptive cruise - PB in Tesla isn't bad so far by comparison. 90% of the time, it is far better than my old X3 system and is much more relaxing to drive long distance. I have yet to encounter any dangerous PB events. Even with some snow on the road, it was pretty good.

Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones with "easy" roads?

 

[guardyourheart]

Agreed. Use AP every day and have no issues. A few random cars jumping out may slow it down 2-3 MPH but far from any of the fears pitched by a few.

Yelobird

Is your Tesla camera only/FSD or does it have radar?

 

[Yelobird]

Yelobird

Is your Tesla camera only/FSD or does it have radar?

FSD Beta vision.

 

[TresLA]

Since so much depends on the roads you’re driving, maybe try Turo/renting a vision only Model Y and try your commute for a day or two.