Will Auto-Pilot (Steering) Be Delayed Due To Legal Restrictions? (NY Times Article)

[mikeash]

Would you consider a driver giving a turn signal which indicates that it's safe to change lanes as "cheating?" The car could simply use that as a trigger.

Regardless of what you want to call it, that's exactly what the Model S is supposed to do when the time comes, and it's a completely reasonable compromise. You keep the driver involved (and presumably he's checking the mirrors and such beforehand) but require minimal input from him.

This should let you change freeways without ever touching the wheel as long as the onramps and offramps are suitable. But you'll still have to pay some attention to what's going on, and trigger the lane changes at the appropriate times. But you won't be able to be *completely* hands off for the trip.

 

[mike-415]

It's unlikely that the current Model S autopilot will ever be able to change lanes on its own. Safely changing lanes requires checking for traffic in the target lane for some distance behind you, to ensure you don't pull out in front of someone going much faster than you are. Humans do this with the side mirrors. Computers can do this with rear-facing radars or cameras, but they need to be mounted on the side to see around traffic behind you. The Model S only has one rear-facing camera, and it's mounted in the center and is zoomed way out so couldn't see well at long distances anyway. There's no rear-facing radar (unless they've hidden one to keep in reserve and surprise us).

This capability certainly has been demonstrated in other cars, but they have more sensors to accomplish it.

This seems like the crux of the issue. There's a lot of argument about regulation and the legality of various features, but the car doesn't have enough sensors to enable anything beyond what's already in production Infinitis. Tesla showing the automatic lane changing seems misleading; it would be reasonable to assume the car would only complete a lane change if safe, but it's clear the driver will have to check the target lane. So the car will have lane centering and adaptive cruise control and maybe the navi will prompt the driver to change lanes when necessary to follow a route; it'll be a level 2 car like many others. That falls short of what Elon promised ("on-ramp to off-ramp") not because of legal hurdles but because the car doesn't have a 360-degree camera, laser, and/or radar array like level-3 cars do.

 

[Beryl]

That falls short of what Elon promised ("on-ramp to off-ramp") not because of legal hurdles but because the car doesn't have a 360-degree camera, laser, and/or radar array like level-3 cars do.

Well that's disappointing. I'm guessing that we won't see this changed on the Model X.

 

[wk057]

Elon actually only ever said on-ramp to off-ramp without touching the steering wheel IIRC... that doesn't preclude user initiated lane changes.

 

[mike-415]

Elon actually only ever said on-ramp to off-ramp without touching the steering wheel IIRC... that doesn't preclude user initiated lane changes.

Good point. My inference (and that of nearly every media outlet reporting on it at the time) was that "no hands on the wheel" equated to semi-autonomous, but he literally meant that you can take your hands off the wheel—nothing more. I should have taken a more cynically narrow view of what he said. I have to hand it to Elon for being a great spin-meister; he got a lot of breathless coverage out of a feature set that he hadn't built yet and that will ultimately not be any more advanced than what was already on the market when he promised it. I wish I could spin my products that well!

 

[Stoneymonster]

Good point. My inference (and that of nearly every media outlet reporting on it at the time) was that "no hands on the wheel" equated to semi-autonomous, but he literally meant that you can take your hands off the wheel—nothing more. I should have taken a more cynically narrow view of what he said. I have to hand it to Elon for being a great spin-meister; he got a lot of breathless coverage out of a feature set that he hadn't built yet and that will ultimately not be any more advanced than what was already on the market when he promised it. I wish I could spin my products that well!

I dunno.. What they've stated and what they've demonstrated have been pretty clear. Most of the spin on autopilot (with the excpetion of the self-parking on private propety stuff) seems to be coming from people's imaginations and the press.

 

[donv]

The difference, and I think it's not insignificant, is that Elon and Tesla are willing to tell you to take your hands off the wheel. Mercedes forces you to keep your hands on the wheel, Ford (I think) makes you touch the wheel every so often, Infiniti doesn't say either way... but none of them ENCOURAGE you to take your hands off the wheel.

Even though, in the end, they are all using more or less the same technology.

Good point. My inference (and that of nearly every media outlet reporting on it at the time) was that "no hands on the wheel" equated to semi-autonomous, but he literally meant that you can take your hands off the wheel—nothing more. I should have taken a more cynically narrow view of what he said. I have to hand it to Elon for being a great spin-meister; he got a lot of breathless coverage out of a feature set that he hadn't built yet and that will ultimately not be any more advanced than what was already on the market when he promised it. I wish I could spin my products that well!

 

[mspohr]

Good point. My inference (and that of nearly every media outlet reporting on it at the time) was that "no hands on the wheel" equated to semi-autonomous, but he literally meant that you can take your hands off the wheel—nothing more. I should have taken a more cynically narrow view of what he said. I have to hand it to Elon for being a great spin-meister; he got a lot of breathless coverage out of a feature set that he hadn't built yet and that will ultimately not be any more advanced than what was already on the market when he promised it. I wish I could spin my products that well!

Yes you are a cynic to take a simple clear statement by Elon and turn it into something devious.

 

[Lump]

Regulators Have Hands Full With Tesla’s Plan for Hands-Free Driving - WSJ

 

[MsElectric]

This seems like the crux of the issue. There's a lot of argument about regulation and the legality of various features, but the car doesn't have enough sensors to enable anything beyond what's already in production Infinitis. Tesla showing the automatic lane changing seems misleading; it would be reasonable to assume the car would only complete a lane change if safe, but it's clear the driver will have to check the target lane. So the car will have lane centering and adaptive cruise control and maybe the navi will prompt the driver to change lanes when necessary to follow a route; it'll be a level 2 car like many others. That falls short of what Elon promised ("on-ramp to off-ramp") not because of legal hurdles but because the car doesn't have a 360-degree camera, laser, and/or radar array like level-3 cars do.

I agree with you completely. I was surprised with the lack of rear and rear-side radar along with a rear camera or 360 degree field of view. Mercedes and others have implement much more robust and overlapping sensor coverage around their cars with much more limited "autopilot" capabilities.

I have a feeling the Model X will have an enhanced sensor suite including rear and rear side radar.