Will AWD Model S make current P85 and P85+ seem slow by comparison?

[Olle]

how about added weight.! The Current TESLA model S has no lack of grip.. It won't be much faster if at all. The only concern I have with the all wheel drive is the extra power required for the 2 motor.. I think the range will suffer dramatically. Still i would be interested in swapping my current ride for one. Anything TESLA does is awesome.

I love my current TESLA.

AWD Range will be equal or better.

 

[WarpedOne]

I disagree with this characterization. The published specs talk, as I understand it, are about the "promised performance minimums"

Max battery power is a function of SOC. If I'd have to "promise a performance minimum" of an EV I'd use the number that is lower than most driving i.e. at say 50% SOC. Or "average out the maximum power" between 20% and 80% SOC. Both methods would result in a lower number than users would get sometimes.

So AWD Model S could have better acceleration, even if max power would stay unchanged, if motors would use different reduction rations?

AWD Model S would have better acceleration even using the same reduction ratio in the rear. Just add another motor in the front (using whatever reduction ratio) and you get stronger acceleration (corrected for added weight of course).

The Current TESLA model S has no lack of grip..

Turn Off traction control and you will see there is mountains of lack of grip... Wheels don't slip because TC limits the torque and hence power.

I think the range will suffer dramatically.

Range would only suffer if second motor would somehow decrease efficiency.
For same output power there is more windings in AWD car so current is lower resulting in lower losses.
There is some additional mechanical friction that can eat into the saved energy. Depending who is bigger efficiency can stay the same, drop or rise a little.

Bigger electric motor is always more efficient than smaller one when outputting same amount of power.
Two same electric motors outputting each 1/2 the power have smaller losses than one of those motors outputting all the power.

 

[ecarfan]

IMHO, nothing will happen to the resale value of the P85. Used Teslas compete not with new Teslas, but first and foremost with other cars in the same used price range. Would Someone choosing between spending $75k on a used P85 or a used Panamera S change their decision because of a new S85 AWD is available for 100K or more?

Agreed. Especially since the coming (possibly) AWD Model S will cost more than the standard S and Tesla continues to be production constrained: demand is greater than supply and that is likely to be true for some time to come.

 

[zax123]

Elon recently boasted about a 200lb weight reduction in the S didn't he? Maybe they are making room for motor #2...

 

[brianman]

The Current TESLA model S has no lack of grip.. It won't be much faster if at all.

Turn off Traction Control and floor it -- even on a dry day. Your opinion may change.

 

[teslasguy]

My P85 will not lose traction even when flooring it with traction control turned off. Only time I was ever able to get it to slip was
With traction control turned off and sitting in a puddle of water during a rain. I've never pulled the fuse. SC said this is normal since even when the traction control is disabled they still leave traction control engaged but at a lesser level.

 

[brianman]

My P85 will not lose traction even when flooring it with traction control turned off. Only time I was ever able to get it to slip was
With traction control turned off and sitting in a puddle of water during a rain. I've never pulled the fuse. SC said this is normal since even when the traction control is disabled they still leave traction control engaged but at a lesser level.

Weird. I can fishtail pretty much at will in my P85 with TC off. (And smoke the tires a bit.)

 

[Vger]

My P85 will not lose traction even when flooring it with traction control turned off. Only time I was ever able to get it to slip was
With traction control turned off and sitting in a puddle of water during a rain. I've never pulled the fuse. SC said this is normal since even when the traction control is disabled they still leave traction control engaged but at a lesser level.

In a parking lot far away, for the first time, I turned off TC to impress an interested gent. Upon flooring it, the car barely moved, and I lit the tires up big time-- clouds of smoke! I was quite surprised. I had not planned on quite such an extreme demo. The onlooker loved it. :wink:

 

[ecarfan]

The range of an AWD might increase if the additional -- and likely smaller -- motor can be used for more efficient driving at a steady speed.

 

[CarlK]

It depends. There are many factors to make a car fast. F1 race cars are still RWD.

 

[WarpedOne]

The range of an AWD might increase if the additional -- and likely smaller -- motor can be used for more efficient driving at a steady speed.

This is a prudent way of doing it - move it's "sweet spot" away form rear motors sweet spot. I'd guess "away" would mean towards higher speeds. Additional torque under 40mph wouldn't be so big but it would improve responsiveness above 80mph where rear motor starts to loose oomph.
It would also decrease additionall losses under 40mph as motor would be turning slower then rear motor.

The biggest gain in efficiency would come from additional and stronger regen one can get from front wheels.

 

[Matias]

The biggest gain in efficiency would come from additional and stronger regen one can get from front wheels.

Do you think regen is maximum possible now? Why?

Of course on slippery conditions it is not possible to ad regen, but on dry tarmac what would be the reason preventing adding it with RWD? Would it affect driving dynamics?

 

[WarpedOne]

It is not the optimal case that is the problem - dry clean tarmac and straight line.

Problem is the average and worst case - lifting the foot while going around a wet corner at medium speeds. Regen has similar effect as pulling a handbrake.
Wehn rear wheels loose traction you spin and you continue to spin even after you released the handbrake or turned off regen. Regaining rear stability after you lost it is hard.
If front wheels loose traction it is not that dramatic. Car gets a bit understeered, that is all. After turning off/decreaseing regen you regain traction almost immediately.

 

[Matias]

OK. As a matter of fact, I'm a bit worried about regen on snow and ice.

 

[Tasdevil]

Two same electric motors outputting each 1/2 the power have smaller losses than one of those motors outputting all the power.

Your power factor will be higher at full load

 

[Olle]

incorrect P85D

There is only one 'correct' way to increase the power of battery pack - make it bigger. Power increases with capacity.
Will P+ be able to harvest all of it? Probably not.

So did Tesla make an incorrect car now that they draw 690 hp from the 85kWh pack?

 

[Vitaman]

Really interesting to reread these posts.
Some people were just not thinking the way Tesla engineers were.
Others were amazingly prescient.