Will Cybertruck have heat pump?

[PV EV in VT]

I learned today that Tesla Model Y has heat pump, similar to Nissan Leaf, Prius Prime, BMW i3EV, etc.
Will the Cybertruck have a heat pump, or will it have resistance heat like our Model S?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Probably yes. Cybertruck will have extended camping mode as well.

 

[Saghost]

As far as I know, every car with a heat pump also has resistance heat. I don’t think it is possible to meet the FMVSS defrosting requirements with only a heat pump.

Given that the Y apparently has a heat pump, I imagine Tesla will be including them in most models going forward - and may well put them into the S/X/3 in future revisions.

 

[MacGreiner]

I hope it does.

 

[mongo]

As far as I know, every car with a heat pump also has resistance heat. I don’t think it is possible to meet the FMVSS defrosting requirements with only a heat pump.

Given that the Y apparently has a heat pump, I imagine Tesla will be including them in most models going forward - and may well put them into the S/X/3 in future revisions.

The Y heat pump system ditches the in cabin PTC heater because it is set up such that the compressor can be driven inefficiency to generate heat (like the 3 drive unit heats the pack). The cabin blower, while lower power, can do the sane.

From the patent, it has both an evaporator and condensor in the cabin, so it can dehumidify (to the point of frosting the evap) while heating.

I expect we'll see a similar setup in Cybertruck and also as a running change on the 3. It is possibly cheaper to build than the non heat pump version. S/X could get the update, but that's more of a tear up.

US20190070924A1 - Optimal source electric vehicle heat pump with extreme temperature heating capability and efficient thermal preconditioning - Google Patents

 

[Saghost]

The Y heat pump system ditches the in cabin PTC heater because it is set up such that the compressor can be driven inefficiency to generate heat (like the 3 drive unit heats the pack). The cabin blower, while lower power, can do the sane.

From the patent, it has both an evaporator and condensor in the cabin, so it can dehumidify (to the point of frosting the evap) while heating.

I expect we'll see a similar setup in Cybertruck and also as a running change on the 3. It is possibly cheaper to build than the non heat pump version. S/X could get the update, but that's more of a tear up.

US20190070924A1 - Optimal source electric vehicle heat pump with extreme temperature heating capability and efficient thermal preconditioning - Google Patents

Oh, that will be interesting.

After skimming the patent I'm not sure I understand exactly what they've done, but I'm looking forward to folks showing the teardown.

It actually sounds like they don't have a condensor out front in the wind like every other A/C system - but they have four separate ends to the heat pump that they can hook in to either side selectively - cabin evaporator and condensor, powertrain "liquid cooled condensor" and battery chiller.

I guess when you need to cool the cabin, they set cabin evaporater against powertrain liquid cooled, then run the heated coolant to the radiator...

 

[mongo]

Oh, that will be interesting.

After skimming the patent I'm not sure I understand exactly what they've done, but I'm looking forward to folks showing the teardown.

It actually sounds like they don't have a condensor out front in the wind like every other A/C system - but they have four separate ends to the heat pump that they can hook in to either side selectively - cabin evaporator and condensor, powertrain "liquid cooled condensor" and battery chiller.

I guess when you need to cool the cabin, they set cabin evaporater against powertrain liquid cooled, then run the heated coolant to the radiator...

In the simplest embodyment: it's a drivetrain sourced heat pump with compressor supplied aux heat.
Still has an ambient condensor, but not an ambient evaporator, so AC works normally.

 

[Arlin]

All Tesla's now use heat pumps and PTC resistive heaters and likely will going forward. But what it might look like is they Made it more effective in heating the cabin in the model Y. We just did a road trip in our Model 3 Sr+ in southern BC where there is no Tesla superchargers and had to travel South 350km from the last supercharger in Kelowna to Salmo BC over 5 mountain passes with HUGE elevation changes. The Chademo adapter has not been available for a while. So we were stuck L2 charging for about 3 hours to make it to my Grandparents. I was trying to keep the speeds down to get the best range I could but I bet that made it wose as everything was cold it was ~ -7 deg C outside most of the way and the PTC likely was all out heat. I kept the heat very low and we were cold the used the seat heaters but we had our 3 year old in the back and needed a bit of heat also needed to see out the windshield. So if they have a better way to use the heat pump then it would have helped I am sure. I have a 3 phase AC compressor here from a EV I am going to design my own heat pump system for my electric CRX so I can have a bit of heat/or AC in the cabin but more importantly have a way to cool the motor and controller. Its interesting to see how Tesla is evolving with this.

 

[mongo]

All Tesla's now use heat pumps and PTC resistive heaters and likely will going forward. But what it might look like is they Made it more effective in heating the cabin in the model Y.

Teslas pre-Y had air conditioning only and a cabin PTC. The Y has a heat pump (cooling and heating), no PTC, and both an in cabin evaporator and condensor.

I was trying to keep the speeds down to get the best range I could but I bet that made it wose as everything was cold it was ~ -7 deg C outside most of the way and the PTC likely was all out heat. I kept the heat very low and we were cold the used the seat heaters but we had our 3 year old in the back and needed a bit of heat also needed to see out the windshield.

You may have already been doing this, but to save energy, put the HVAC in recirculation mode (at least until the windows start fogging)

 

[Fiddler]

All Tesla's now use heat pumps and PTC resistive heaters ...
if they have a better way to use the heat pump then it would have helped I am sure. I have a 3 phase AC compressor here from a EV I am going to design my own heat pump system for my electric CRX so I can have a bit of heat/or AC in the cabin but more importantly have a way to cool the motor and controller. Its interesting to see how Tesla is evolving with this.

Arlin, unless the design has changed, the Model S, X, & 3 don't use Heat Pumps. They use an air conditioning compressor which is a type of heat pump.The M3 and MY don't use PTC resistive heaters, but instead stall the rear motor to heat the motor coolant.

The Model Y uses a heat pump with hydronic OctaValue:
"German Made PAW Modular Hydronic Pump Stations are considered the leader in heating solutions with their patented modular distribution manifold. Now you can easily create multiple heating zones by simply dropping a pump station onto the manifold. No plumbing is required. Seamlessly integrates zones with different temperatures and flow rates into one complete system."

"PAW equipment is built around a centralized heating distribution system. All zones can share the same heat source whether this is a boiler, solar heating or a heat pump. The plug and play hydronic design allows for customers to build one integrated solution to do hydronic heating loops, domestic hot water, fan coil radiators, pools/hot tubs and even snow melt zones."
https://www.arcticheatpumps.com/paw-hydronic-heating-equipment.html

 

[Brando]

I don't see the SuperBottle.
Systems/vertical integration, we all know, is just one of Tesla's advantages. [Few seem realize Tesla even makes seats.]
So, I'd guess that systems integration is more of a trade secret and not a simple patent. [reminder Tesla patent are free]

 

[Fiddler]

I don't see the SuperBottle ... ]

Brando, Do you mean that you don't see a patent for SuperBottle?
The SuperBottle (idea but not the name) might be patented under 'modular distribution manifold' or PAW Modular Hydronic Pump Stations.

www.arcticheatpumps.com/paw-hydronic-heating-equipment.html

 

[Brando]

Brando, Do you mean that you don't see a patent for SuperBottle? ...

NO. Not in above diagram.

 

[Fiddler]

NO. Not in above diagram.

The mongo diagram is for an ICE car, not a Tesla with a SuperBottle.

 

[Brando]

The mongo diagram is for an ICE car, not a Tesla with a SuperBottle.

Which was of course my point, no SuperBottle shown which is on all Model 3s.
A Tesla patent?? seriously?? for an ICE design?? color me just plane stupid.

 

[mongo]

The mongo diagram is for an ICE car, not a Tesla with a SuperBottle.

No, that is from the Tesla patent linked in post 5 and, as I said, is the simplest embodiment.

Which was of course my point, no SuperBottle shown which is on all Model 3s.
A Tesla patent?? seriously?? for an ICE design?? color me just plane stupid.

Note that the schematics are functional drawings, not exact representations of the system. For instance, Elon tweeted that the Y has the Octovalve which combines the fluid switching shown as individual valves. Which also means the system in the car is closer to this version.

This is the Octovalve as called out: