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Will Electric Cars Wreck the Grid?

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by vfx, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  2. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  3. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    An "Electric Car" or vehicle search on the Scientific American site shows they are covering the scene pretty regularly.

    I was looking for an article I was told about in last months issue that gives a chart on the amount of electricity it takes to make a gallon of gasoline. A favorite subject here. :smile:
     
  4. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Do they really have to store all the individual numbers every 15 min, for a duration of ten years? Does anyone really need to know the exact amount consumed 7 years, 3 months, 4 days, 2 hours, 45 min ago?

    Does the cost per kWh really go up when more is consumed? Isn't there, in general, the effect of economies of scale such that the rates should go down? Aren't larger transformers more cost-effective than smaller ones? Or would that really require quantum physics and carbon nano tubes?
     
  5. DRM

    DRM Roadster #619

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    This actually isn't as big of a problem as it sounds. Although it's a lot of data, I think it might be instructive to look at how much it costs to store data commercially as opposed to how many 1000's of filing cabinets XXXMB of data fills.

    For reference, jungledisk.com (one of the better online backup systems) will archive your data for 15cents per GigaByte online. According to the article, a smartmeter will generate ~400MB of data per user over 10 years. At *today's* archive prices, this is less than a dime in archive costs per customer ... or a penny a year; hardly a large portion of your electric bill.

    Yes, they will need to build out storage capacity, but it's unlikely to be a critical roadblock.

    //dan.
     
  6. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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  7. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    There is plenty of unused capacity at night.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I recall seeing a report that said 75% of the UK's cars could go electric without impacting the grid, but I can't find it now. If anyone knows the one I mean, I'd like to send it to the Telegraph.
     
  9. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Could it have been a misunderstanding or mis-print. I see sites saying 75% of the grid energy can be used for travel (compared to 23% for gas). Basically the "electric cars are a lot more efficent at converting energy to motion" statement.

    For example, this says:

    Here was an article saying that 10% EVs could be tolerated:
    UK grid capacity 'sufficient' for electric vehicles
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  11. Alfred

    Alfred Member

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    Wrong consumption data - wrong conclusions

    As you can calculate from the Roadster's consumption data, typically 130-180 Wh/km in normal use, a well designed electric vehicles can be around 5-10 times more efficient than a comparable gasoline powered car, particularly in urban, slow stop and go traffic. A gasoline piston engine driven car does not reach these efficiencies around 20% often quoted. That is what the engine might do on a test bed, often without energy consuming auxiliaries connected (fans, exhaust etc). A better starting point is using EPA mileages of comparably quick cars and then allow for the fact that much driving is urban, giving that a bit more weight, say 80%, depending a bit on the local scene. I did some of those calculations on my pages referenced below.
     
  12. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    The Zero Carbonista link is quite interesting. I misunderstood from the title - assuming that it meant we'd need to put 12% more peak power on the grid. That is not the case:

    So looking at the previous graph, that 12% could be delivered by existing sources overnight.

    In actual fact then, the grid could handle 100% of the UK fleet going electric.
     
  13. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Found this too: IET | Charge of the electric car

    There is an interesting comment at the end.


    I've written a letter to the Telegraph, we'll see if they publish it. Copied with added hyperlinks:

     
  14. AndrewBissell

    AndrewBissell Member

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  15. PeterW

    PeterW Member

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    More Applause.

    I hope they publish it.
     
  16. ChargeIt!

    ChargeIt! Member

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    .....
     

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  17. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    I liked it too.:biggrin:
    I would only ask for a link backing the assertion "An electric car on average uses under 200 Wh per mile."
     
  18. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    It's a bit of a finger in the air, to be honest. You know that on the highway it is higher, but around town less. I think the argument still holds up at 300Wh / mile, though.


    I found another article while looking for something else.

    Plug-in Transportation, Can the Grid Take It?
     
  19. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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