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Will EV range become a non-issue?

Discussion in 'Future Vehicles' started by Sunlight, Aug 10, 2017.

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  1. Sunlight

    Sunlight Member

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    Batteries are heavy things to cart around when not necessary. And expensive......

    When new-tech batteries and chargers mean that 10-80% charge can be done in a few minutes, will range above (guess) 100 miles be necessary?

    This would keep the weight and cost of EVs lower, give adequate range for 'normal' use. If one got caught short and there are numerous fast chargers, a quick 5 min charge would be adequate. Then range becomes fairly irrelevant.....

    Long distance touring may still be inconvenienced but a 5 min stop every couple of hours is hardly a ball-breaker.

    I believe the range-anxiety neurosis that holds back the take-up of EVs is currently driven by the perceived inability to find a charger and the belief that any decent charge will take 'hours and hours'.............
     
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  2. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    It's not that simple. When you see some lab tech where they show charging in a couple minutes, or even seconds, they're really just talking about ion mobility (the minimum possible time to charge, where if you try to charge faster, all of the extra energy just gets wasted as heat). Even if they can show great longevity in such fast charges (which they often don't demonstrate), and economic viability (which they almost never demonstrate) it doesn't deal with heat removal from the pack, which is a major limiting factor. The larger the format cells, the more energy density you get but the slower the heat removal, and vice versa - so there's a balance.

    Secondly, asking your average driver to pull over once an hour - even if for a short period of time - is worse than asking them to stop once every 3 hours for half an hour or so. Remember, we're not talking about converting EV fans, we're talking about converting the masses who are reluctant to give EVs a chance. Telling them that they need to stop once an hour, wherever they are, whatever they're doing? That will go over like a lead balloon.
     
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  3. 11thIndian

    11thIndian Member

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    We're still at the very nascent stages of the ICE--->EV transition. If you look at battery tech from 20 years ago, and then even just mirror that 20 years ahead (so barring any crazy breakthroughs), then range and charging times will be equivalent if not largely exceed what people get out of an ICE vehicle now.

    And what EV critics always seem to forget is that if you have home charging, you start with a full tank every day. I think at the end of the EV transition, we'll see far less charging stations than gas stations in regular daily commuting zones (because people just won't need more than 250miles/400kms of distance a day), but probably an equal amount along long-distance interstate routes. Though it would surprise the heck out of me if hotels- either directly or thru partnerships, didn't get into the charging game.
     
  4. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    I don't think the majority of long range driving will ever be done by cars with ~100 mile batteries, no.

    As Karen alluded to, there are big psychological issues with the five minute stop every hour, even if the trip would be faster overall than the thirty minutes every three hours.

    I'm also pretty sure the trip wouldn't be shorter, once you factor in the time to detour off the freeway. The hundred mile driver needs to eat, too - but he can't get the full benefit from the time he stopped, because he fills his little battery long before he finishes eating, but still has to stop an hour later.

    Also think about the logistics on a road trip destination - you need chargers much closer to your destination sites, and might still have to stop for intermediate charges during the touristing.

    I think there's a major shift in practicality and logistics somewhere in the 200 to 300 mile range, and possibly a second one in the 300-400 range, regardless of how fast you make charging or how many charge stations you have.

    I've never met someone who wished for less range in their EV - or even was jealous of how alter car was slightly more efficient with its smaller battery.

    Given the choices I had then, I'd pick my X75D again - but I would love to have more range, and of the 100 had been available I might have chosen differently...
     
  5. Graffi

    Graffi Member

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    Because of the Current and Expected Supercharger network we felt that the MS 75D had more than enough range to get us almost anywhere we would like to go. When it is time for our M3 we would like to go with the Standard 220mi range but may end up getting the extended 310 mile range version just so we do not have to wait.

    For our long drives in the past we always rented a car. We would always stop for break every 1 to 2 hours. With our Tesla we did the same thing so our total trip time did not increase that much. We actually spent more time at most stations talking to others about out Tesla and EV's in general.
     
  6. AceSkywalker

    AceSkywalker Member

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    No, because having a range of 200-300+ miles gives the user peace of mind. More so if you're doing long-distance driving off the main interstate highway network in the USA. It also gives the user the ability to skip a charger or three, especially if say a charger was inoperative.

    I can refill my ICE in <5 minutes, but no car owner today would be okay with having to stop every hour to refill their car, despite the ubiquity of gasoline stations and the speed of refilling.
     
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  7. Stirfelt

    Stirfelt Member

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    I'm still debating which battery to get (over a year away).
    The smaller battery would serve me for 70% of my driving.
    In the event 1 or 2 additional chargers are installed at select points on my monthly route .... I will go with the smaller battery and put that $9k into other upgrades.
     
  8. Xminus6

    Xminus6 Member

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    I think anything over 200 miles of range with recharging in less than 10 minutes is the sweet spot. I've owned 4 EVs. Slow charging and short range are an awful combination. I think you really only NEED either very long range or very fast charging for most peoples' needs. Both obviously ends the game against ICE vehicles almost immediately.

    If the Solid State Technology developed by Dr. Goodenough at The University of Texas (Hook 'Em!) is commercially viable then the gig is up for gasoline and diesel cars. Dr. Goodenough has tons of credibility since he did invent the LiIon battery as well.
     
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  9. ReddyLeaf

    ReddyLeaf Member

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    Your whole post is spot on, but this is the money quote. Three hours, 210 mi, 70 mph, is just about right. Bump it up to 80-85mph in desolate areas and you're still talking less than 300 mi. I find two hours is better for my breaks, but some crazy fools think they have to drive 500 mi non-stop. Let them pay 10x more. I'll stick with a 70D, which is just about perfect. 10 min charging would be great for AM and PM stops, but lunch still takes 30-45 min.
     
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  10. Xminus6

    Xminus6 Member

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    Yup. Just finished a round trip to Disneyland from the Bay Area. We were able fully charge at Harris Ranch before we finished eating on both legs. If it weren't for the freak occurrence of the Grapevine catching fire and being covered in oil, we would have had a seamless trip with the Model X. Destination charger at one of our hotels that allowed me to fully charge before moving to the hotel that only had a 110v outlet for me to use. Even that was able to fully charge the car with two charging sessions over two nights to get me back to one ten-minute "splash" charge before heading to Harris Ranch again. All of those stops actually coincided with a good break time since the kids needed to use the bathroom anyway. It was amazingly pain-free really and it cost us nothing in fuel.
     
  11. ChrML

    ChrML Member

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    I think todays 500+ km range cars have enough range for being non-issue for most people. With my max 5-8 supercharging each year, I still spend a lot less time supercharging than gasing 30-40 times a year.
     
  12. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Eventually range will become a minor issue. Right now it's an issue depending upon where you live and the trips you take. Some folks decide to purchase one ICE vehicle as opposed to another based on how far they can go between fill-ups, so it's never going to be a non-issue.

    The state today in North America is:

    1. When traveling on the freeways it's a minor issue in most areas except in winter or when there are bad head or crosswinds.

    2. If you'd rather not travel on the boring freeways or travel some distance from a freeway, it's a big issue.

    3. If you live in Canada, traveling is a big issue, although some progress has been made.

    4. In cities, it's a very minor issue unless you are unable to charge at home--then it's a big issue.
     
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  13. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    For me and my personal normal driving, it's right now. I can do all of my day to day driving without charging and trips are easy.
     
  14. EVie'sDad

    EVie'sDad Member

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    IMHO most BEVs today can perform adequately for short range trips even on a daily basis. For longer trips, larger battery configurations are recommended. For Tesla's anything above a 75 Kw/Hr battery will suffice to go between most superchargers. In the future, with redundancy in the supercharger network and the improvements in battery capacity and motor efficiency, I suspect that much in the way ICE owners don't often encounter range issues, that people will also grow accustom to the ranges of BEVs (provided other auto-makers also make the effort to increase those ranges and supporting the means to travel longer distances).

    Ours is a Model S 85D, and I haven't had any range anxiety issues since my very first road trip and then only once the way to newest of 10 supercharger stops on a 1100 mile trip to Las Vegas. This was due to insufficient data in the car mapping (which did not update until we were within 10 miles of the Charger).

    The anxiety was falsely introduced by the vehicle itself repeatedly insisting we did were nearing or were beyond the range of it's "known" available superchargers, that we should slow down and then later suggesting we find a local energy source because no supercharger was in range. Tesla by phone assured us the new station was active, online and we were confident we could make it on our current level of charge based upon reliable calculations. Long story short, the vehicle finally updated it's mapping of superchargers just 15 miles before we were to 'run-out' of juice, fortunately the supercharger was only 10 miles away. We proceeded to arrive and charge without any further incidents.

    After that I think we bumped the charge level up to 95 percent for the remainder of that first trip, just to add a level of comfort, but today I almost exclusively keep it at around 85 percent charged or less, even on trips when rarely I may bump it to 90 percent. Happy Motoring!
     
  15. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    Infrastructure you can trust is the key.
     
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  16. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

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    Neither is a 30 minute stop.

    I bet that you have driven Johannesburg to Durban a few times in your life, and I also bet that you've stopped over at Harrismith for lunch.

    That trip is entirely unchanged with a current Model S. No new tech needed.
     
  17. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    Exactly. I regularly take a trip that is about 9 and a half hours of drive time and we usually take a meal stop half way. Using that same time to charge would make no difference in the overall time it takes vs. an ICE car.
     
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  18. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    This has been my experience as well. Virtually no difference in the time it takes.
     

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