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Will I get FSD with MCU1?

mpkelly20

Member
Jun 17, 2020
62
15
Montana
Hi all,

I have a 2017 MX pretty sure it's MCU 1.

It says autopilot 2.0

I don't know if I have hardware 2.0 2.5 or 3.0


I want to try FSD, as soon as possible and I see demos rolling out.

How do I do this?

Will my MCU 1 need to be upgraded? Will the hardware in terms of cameras allow me to run FSD?

Will Tesla pay for any and all upgraded which are needed in order for me to experience the FSD which I paid for?

If so, how do I ask that this be done by service?


Michael
 

HyperionMark

Member
Aug 28, 2017
508
227
Brookings, SD
Hi all,

I have a 2017 MX pretty sure it's MCU 1.

It says autopilot 2.0

I don't know if I have hardware 2.0 2.5 or 3.0


I want to try FSD, as soon as possible and I see demos rolling out.

How do I do this?

Will my MCU 1 need to be upgraded? Will the hardware in terms of cameras allow me to run FSD?

Will Tesla pay for any and all upgraded which are needed in order for me to experience the FSD which I paid for?

If so, how do I ask that this be done by service?


Michael
Seems to me like it's only right to get everything you need to have whatever FSD features come out since you paid for it. But hey, it's Tesla. No one will know ever know for sure.
 

Raechris

Member
Nov 21, 2017
651
299
Boston
Hi all,

I have a 2017 MX pretty sure it's MCU 1.

It says autopilot 2.0

I don't know if I have hardware 2.0 2.5 or 3.0


I want to try FSD, as soon as possible and I see demos rolling out.

How do I do this?

Will my MCU 1 need to be upgraded? Will the hardware in terms of cameras allow me to run FSD?

Will Tesla pay for any and all upgraded which are needed in order for me to experience the FSD which I paid for?

If so, how do I ask that this be done by service?


Michael
Call your SC

MCU2 = 3/18
AP2.5 = 8/17

You will need FSD upgraded computer installed (free with you let FSD purchase). MCU2 is likely recommended but cost around 2k. Not sure about AP 2.0 hardware capability.
 

animorph

Active Member
Apr 1, 2016
2,134
1,529
Scottsdale, AZ
I believe all 2017 X's came with MCU1 and AP2.0. That's what mine (March 2017 delivery) had. I purchased FSD as part of the original order.

Have you purchased the FSD package? If you have, HW3 comes included with that upgrade. That will get you city-driving FSD when it becomes available. FSD does not look terribly great with MCU1 according to posts here, but Tesla says it does the job. The display may be limited and slow on MCU1. I opted for the MCU2 upgrade for $2500. FSD is great with that, plus it speeds up everything else and adds the few features not otherwise available with MCU1.

AP2.0 cameras are slightly different than AP2.5 cameras, they don't have a full color capability. The radar may be different as well. But Tesla has not indicated that it will cause any problems with FSD. You should be fine with AP2.0. There is no AP2.0 to 2.5 upgrade available from Tesla, so I hope my AP2.0 setup works smoothly for FSD.

I think you're talking about FSD beta testing, not demos. There is no general release of actual city-driving FSD yet. I'm not sure there are any free demos of the current FSD package at this time, though Tesla has offered demos of current packages previously. Any demo right now would only have EAP features, which you may have already, plus stopping at stop signs and stop lights.
 

mpkelly20

Member
Jun 17, 2020
62
15
Montana
I believe all 2017 X's came with MCU1 and AP2.0. That's what mine (March 2017 delivery) had. I purchased FSD as part of the original order.

Have you purchased the FSD package? If you have, HW3 comes included with that upgrade. That will get you city-driving FSD when it becomes available. FSD does not look terribly great with MCU1 according to posts here, but Tesla says it does the job. The display may be limited and slow on MCU1. I opted for the MCU2 upgrade for $2500. FSD is great with that, plus it speeds up everything else and adds the few features not otherwise available with MCU1.

AP2.0 cameras are slightly different than AP2.5 cameras, they don't have a full color capability. The radar may be different as well. But Tesla has not indicated that it will cause any problems with FSD. You should be fine with AP2.0. There is no AP2.0 to 2.5 upgrade available from Tesla, so I hope my AP2.0 setup works smoothly for FSD.

I think you're talking about FSD beta testing, not demos. There is no general release of actual city-driving FSD yet. I'm not sure there are any free demos of the current FSD package at this time, though Tesla has offered demos of current packages previously. Any demo right now would only have EAP features, which you may have already, plus stopping at stop signs and stop lights.


do you currently have FSD working in your car (are you part of the demo)? "PSD is great with that, plus it speeds up...."

Can you clarify what is HW3. and how does that relate to AP2.0. 2.5 0r 3.0. ?
 

dmurphy

Woof.
Dec 7, 2018
3,543
4,729
New Jersey - Morris County
Hi all,

I have a 2017 MX pretty sure it's MCU 1.

It says autopilot 2.0

I don't know if I have hardware 2.0 2.5 or 3.0


I want to try FSD, as soon as possible and I see demos rolling out.

How do I do this?

Will my MCU 1 need to be upgraded? Will the hardware in terms of cameras allow me to run FSD?

Will Tesla pay for any and all upgraded which are needed in order for me to experience the FSD which I paid for?

If so, how do I ask that this be done by service?


Michael

So can you do this for us please?

Press the car icon at the bottom left, then choose the Software menu. Take a picture.
Press "Additional vehicle information.". Take another picture.
You can black out the IMEI # if that makes you uncomfortable but it's fairly harmless.

This will show us what options your car has, and what MCU and what Autopilot Computer you have.

That'll help us, definitively, see what you have, what you need and what the cost would be (if any!)
 

rush6410

Member
Sep 26, 2016
635
604
Montgomery TX
do you currently have FSD working in your car (are you part of the demo)? "PSD is great with that, plus it speeds up...."

Can you clarify what is HW3. and how does that relate to AP2.0. 2.5 0r 3.0. ?
HW3 = AP2.5 and up hardware + MCU2 main display + FSD module. There is just a slight difference with the cameras and radar between AP2.0 and AP2.5 and up. But, the differences does not impact FSD capabilities. The FSD capabilities will work at a minimum with AP2.0 hardware + MCU1 main display + FSD module. Currently, an AP2.0 vehicle can be upgraded from MCU 1 to 2 at a cost to achieve the same software and FSD capabilities as the cars rolling off the lot now. I have AP2.0 + MCU1 + FSD and have all current FSD capabilities available. The FSD update that is being release to Early adopters will be available to all FSD capable vehicles as it is rolled out.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,783
7,606
Visalia, CA
...Can you clarify what is HW3. and how does that relate to AP2.0. 2.5 0r 3.0. ?

AP stands for Autopilot function/feature and sometimes people also refer to it as a Hardware.

AP1 has Hardware1 (HW1) with 1 camera and can't be upgraded to FSD that requires 8 cameras.

AP2 has Hardware2 (HW2). This hardware is faster than HW1

AP2.5 has Hardware2.5 (HW2.5). This hardware is a minor revision of HW2.

======Currently those above are not powerful enough for FSD========

AP3 has Hardware3.0 (HW3.0). Currently, this is the minimum power requirement for FSD. Prior Hardware is not powerful enough for FSD.

I said "currently" and "minimum" because there's no telling HW3 will be powerful enough for FSD. Currently, "FSD" cannot be "Fully Self Driving" around by itself because it still needs human driver.

Will it need HW4 or HW79 in the future to cut the cord for the needs of human driver? I have no idea.
 

bob_p

Active Member
Apr 5, 2012
3,691
2,802
In the Tesla app, go to the Upgrades section for your vehicle and look at what's listed on the "Eligible" and "Purchased" tabs.

For our 2017 S 100D (that came with MCU1/AP2), since we purchased EAP and FSD with the vehicle, we don't have anything listed on the Eligible tab. On the Purchased tab, we have Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability.

All 2017 S/X vehicles have hardware capable to run FSD - with MCU1. The only restriction might be a limit on the FSD visualization displayed on the dashboard. The only hardware required hardware change is an upgrade of the AP processor to the new HW3/FSD processor, which is included with the purchase of the FSD option.

We purchased FSD for $3K with our 2017 S and 2018 X. Today it will cost $8K to purchase the same upgrade - and likely $10K later this week. Plus, Tesla will likely offer a monthly FSD subscription sometime next year, for those vehicles that still don't have FSD activated.
 

mpkelly20

Member
Jun 17, 2020
62
15
Montana
HW3 = AP2.5 and up hardware + MCU2 main display + FSD module. There is just a slight difference with the cameras and radar between AP2.0 and AP2.5 and up. But, the differences does not impact FSD capabilities. The FSD capabilities will work at a minimum with AP2.0 hardware + MCU1 main display + FSD module. Currently, an AP2.0 vehicle can be upgraded from MCU 1 to 2 at a cost to achieve the same software and FSD capabilities as the cars rolling off the lot now. I have AP2.0 + MCU1 + FSD and have all current FSD capabilities available. The FSD update that is being release to Early adopters will be available to all FSD capable vehicles as it is rolled out.


Does your car recognize stop lights and stop signs?
 

mpkelly20

Member
Jun 17, 2020
62
15
Montana
AP stands for Autopilot function/feature and sometimes people also refer to it as a Hardware.

AP1 has Hardware1 (HW1) with 1 camera and can't be upgraded to FSD that requires 8 cameras.

AP2 has Hardware2 (HW2). This hardware is faster than HW1

AP2.5 has Hardware2.5 (HW2.5). This hardware is a minor revision of HW2.

======Currently those above are not powerful enough for FSD========

AP3 has Hardware3.0 (HW3.0). Currently, this is the minimum power requirement for FSD. Prior Hardware is not powerful enough for FSD.

I said "currently" and "minimum" because there's no telling HW3 will be powerful enough for FSD. Currently, "FSD" cannot be "Fully Self Driving" around by itself because it still needs human driver.

Will it need HW4 or HW79 in the future to cut the cord for the needs of human driver? I have no idea.



Can you provide some documentation or proof for the statement 'those above are not powerful enough for FSD'

Let's make sure we are using FSD in the same way

I defined FSD as 'the FSD capabilities which are on par with the furthest advanced FSD which is available to beta testers'

I do not define FSD as 'the car can drive itself without a driver'

I think that would be confusing if people used that 2nd definition b/c it defines full FSD functionality as something in the future.


The 'FSD' which we all purchased is 'i paid tesla for FSD which means my car should be capable of FSD to just as advanced a degree as any other Tesla'. If this were not the case, then their should be a teired payment structure and different definitions for the various levels of functionality.


Michael
 

Krazaak

Member
Jul 30, 2017
902
998
Charlotte, NC
Can you provide some documentation or proof for the statement 'those above are not powerful enough for FSD'

Let's make sure we are using FSD in the same way

I defined FSD as 'the FSD capabilities which are on par with the furthest advanced FSD which is available to beta testers'

I do not define FSD as 'the car can drive itself without a driver'

I think that would be confusing if people used that 2nd definition b/c it defines full FSD functionality as something in the future.


The 'FSD' which we all purchased is 'i paid tesla for FSD which means my car should be capable of FSD to just as advanced a degree as any other Tesla'. If this were not the case, then their should be a teired payment structure and different definitions for the various levels of functionality.


Michael
I think you might be overly complicating the question. A 2017 X could be AP2 or AP2.5 hardware depending upon when it was built, it's definitely MCU1. If you've purchased FSD, then you're eligible for the HW3 upgrade, which is the AP3 computer, although you retain whatever version of AP cameras and radar you have.

Currently, a HW3 upgraded vehicle gets all of the released FSD driving features and I think it's safe to assume it is capable of the latest FSD limited beta, but not sure it's been distributed widely enough to know for sure.

The visualizations you receive however are dependent upon the version of MCU, MCU1 or MCU2. MCU1 will not receive all the same visualizations as MCU2, but the autonomous driving capabilities should be the same. MCU1 will not record the rear camera in TeslaCam or Sentry, although the HW3 upgrade will enable those features for the other 3 cameras.

No part of the FSD description ever stated what visualizations you would receive, so I doubt anyone will be able to make the case to force Tesla to upgrade the MCU just for the visualizations. Also, if Tesla determines that enhanced visualizations are required to take part in early beta releases of FSD features, then MCU1 might receive those updates later. The vehicle may still be capable of the feature with MCU1, but Tesla may wait to release it until it requires less visual oversight by the driver.
 

jboy210

Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
5,097
3,169
Northern California
Can you provide some documentation or proof for the statement 'those above are not powerful enough for FSD'

Let's make sure we are using FSD in the same way

I defined FSD as 'the FSD capabilities which are on par with the furthest advanced FSD which is available to beta testers'

I do not define FSD as 'the car can drive itself without a driver'

I think that would be confusing if people used that 2nd definition b/c it defines full FSD functionality as something in the future.


The 'FSD' which we all purchased is 'i paid tesla for FSD which means my car should be capable of FSD to just as advanced a degree as any other Tesla'. If this were not the case, then their should be a teired payment structure and different definitions for the various levels of functionality.


Michael

This battle has been fought and lost before.

Getting full SD functionally as it is being betaed today will require the latest AP HW, version 3.
The Tesla designed and built V3 AP is 21 times faster than the old Nvidia V2.5 AP HW. In addition, it has redundant processors. The latest Self-drive models are deployed assuming the V3 or later HW suite.

This article has a description of the HW3 board and Tesla chip. The details are in the slides.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,783
7,606
Visalia, CA
Can you provide some documentation or proof for the statement 'those above are not powerful enough for FSD'

As @joby210 pointed out on Autonomy Day, the minimum to talk about FSD has been HW3, not lower than that. The minimum FSD machine that's called "FSD computer" is now HW3 and not lower:

"Anyone who purchased full self-driving will get FSD computer upgrade for free. This is the only change between Autopilot HW2.5 & HW3. Going forward “HW3” will just be called FSD Computer, which is accurate. No change to vehicle sensors or wire harness needed. This is v important." 3:50 PM · Mar 29, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

..Let's make sure we are using FSD in the same way...

FSD has been explained, lectured the same way: L5, Autonomous, Robotaxi.

In practice, it has not been L5, Autonomous, Robotaxi... but that doesn't stop Elon Musk and staff talking about driving coast to coast without human intervention, summon from the other side of the country, receive revenues while sleeping at home when your Robtaxi does all the hard work, robotic snake in case you doubt that there must be a need for human because the car needs charging if you summon it from across the country...

...I defined FSD as 'the FSD capabilities which are on par with the furthest advanced FSD which is available to beta testers'

I do not define FSD as 'the car can drive itself without a driver'

I think that would be confusing if people used that 2nd definition b/c it defines full FSD functionality as something in the future.
...

That's clearly why your name was not listed on Autonomy Day.
 

rush6410

Member
Sep 26, 2016
635
604
Montgomery TX
AP stands for Autopilot function/feature and sometimes people also refer to it as a Hardware.

AP1 has Hardware1 (HW1) with 1 camera and can't be upgraded to FSD that requires 8 cameras.

AP2 has Hardware2 (HW2). This hardware is faster than HW1

AP2.5 has Hardware2.5 (HW2.5). This hardware is a minor revision of HW2.

======Currently those above are not powerful enough for FSD========

AP3 has Hardware3.0 (HW3.0). Currently, this is the minimum power requirement for FSD. Prior Hardware is not powerful enough for FSD.

I said "currently" and "minimum" because there's no telling HW3 will be powerful enough for FSD. Currently, "FSD" cannot be "Fully Self Driving" around by itself because it still needs human driver.

Will it need HW4 or HW79 in the future to cut the cord for the needs of human driver? I have no idea.

This is a bit misleading. Of course every iteration above the line without the FSD module installed will not work with FSD functionality. But every iteration AP2.0 initial build with the FSD module upgrade is powerful enough and will support FSD functionality. But, without knowing what the future holds predicting what levels of FSD functionality available to the previous builds will be uncertain. AP/HW 2.5 and AP/HW 3.0 are identical with the FSD module retrofit. AP/HW 2.0 difference to AP/HW 3.0 retrofitted or built is:
  • Cameras RCCC vs RCCB
  • Radar 525ft vs 558ft
So, AP2.0 and up from an FSD module capability level are close to equal with the exception stated above.

The MCU becomes the other differentiator. AP/HW2.0 and some AP/HW2.5 builds may want to opt to upgrade to MCU2. The only impact is navigation routing and re-routing. There is some lag to initiating routing and re-routing with MCU1 vehicles. So, in some circumstances, this may be an issue. But, while on route, the behavior should be identical.

Autopilot, Processors and Hardware – MCU & HW Demystified – TeslaTap
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,783
7,606
Visalia, CA
...This is a bit misleading...

As is, without physical hardware upgrading, HW1 to HW2.5 are not FSD capable. That doesn't mean its headlights, tires... are not compatible with FSD or its radar is not compatible with FSD or its cameras are not compatible with FSD.

HW1 needs lots of modifications such as from 1 camera to 8 cameras and more while HW2.5 at least needs to swap out to get HW3.0 computer.
 
Last edited:

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,783
7,606
Visalia, CA
HW1 is not possible to ever get FSD. AP/HW2.0 and up are. I looked over HW1 knowing it was obviously not compatible.

Maybe it's financially not reasonable to upgrade but technically, even Jason Hughes was able to upgrade HW0 (classic without radar nor camera) to AP1. The project cost him 50 hours.

Elon said it's just too costly to do it:

Autopilot Retrofit on Classic P85 | wk057's SkieNET

Tesla Hacker adds Autopilot to a first-gen "classic" Model S

Elon Musk said about upgrading AP1 to AP2: "Upgrading cars is not realistic. It's like giving cars a spinal cord transplant."

It's difficult but there's no reason that technically AP1 can be upgraded to AP2 but it's just a matter of skill, time, and money.
 
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